I'm pretty new to all of this but I'm one of so called 3,000 day traders. It wouldn't bother me if there was a charge after so many trades, like the credit unions do with the ATM fees. It's been a wild ride the last month but it's been fun I think. Sounds like we need a "Few Good Men" on the board.
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Or you can now use TapaTalk again!TSP board to limit interfund transfers
- Thread starter caymanbrac12
- Start date
I'm pretty new to all of this but I'm one of so called 3,000 day traders. It wouldn't bother me if there was a charge after so many trades, like the credit unions do with the ATM fees. It's been a wild ride the last month but it's been fun I think. Sounds like we need a "Few Good Men" on the board.
FundSurfer
Well-known member
You don't even have to do that. Just re-adjust every day like the L-funds do!
FundSurfer
Well-known member
I'm with ayla. If it is in a format I could tweak the wording a little myself, that would be great. It probably already exist on this messageboard somewhere. Can someone point me to it?
Show-me
Well-known member
I will post something later with addresses. It may take me until morning so hang in there.
Show-me had a pretty good draft of a letter a week or so posted here, but if you can't find that one, here is another example that tsp.tom had posted a while back. It is short, and well-written. It is intended to be sent to the FRTIB, but you could alter the first sentence if you want to send it to your Congressman, Union Rep, etc.. If you don't agree with the part at the end about being willing to pay a fee for transactions, then simply delete that sentence.
____________________________________________________________
RE: November 6, 2007 Memorandum “Frequent Trading”
I have just learned of your intention to impose a restriction on Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) trading activity, specifically limiting participants to no more than two (2) transfers per month. I believe this will have a serious, negative impact on my ability to maximize my retirement account, which in turn lowers my quality of life in retirement. This is incongruent with the philosophy of the TSP program.
As a career federal employee faced with the challenge of ensuring I have put aside adequate funds for my retirement, the TSP is an excellent investment option. Through my active participation, my returns have been much greater than they would have been if the number of transfers was restricted, as you are recommending.
Based on the September 18, 2006 Government Executive article, “Cost of running TSP lower than anticipated”, the September 17, 2007 “Minutes of the Meeting of the Board Members”, the “Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board Budget”, and numerous other resources, the cost of administering the TSP is and has been under budget, specifically for years 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and the increase in 2007 is not entirely due to increased trading costs, but most likely due to “Other contractual services”, and the production of a DVD for participants who don’t read the available material.
As justification for the transfer limitations, you cite Federal Employees' Retirement System Act of 1986 (FERSA) sec. 8475 which directs the board to “develop investment policies…which provide for…low administrative costs.” However, in 5 CFR Ch. VI, Subpart D “Contribution Allocations and Interfund Transfer Requests”, §1601.32(4)(b) “Limit. There is no limit on the number of contribution allocations or interfund transfer requests that may be made by a participant.”
To allow my continued active participation in securing adequate retirement income, I would be more than willing to pay an off-setting fee to TSP for the increased transaction costs. Therefore, I ask that you give further consideration to imposing restrictions on TSP trading activity.Buttheads
Buttheads indeed.... It is called money management! I am one of the 3000 and my year-to-date earnings are around 12 percent - modest - but a hell of a lot better than the L funds. Further, I wonder if the number of frequent traders is growing quickly. It takes several years before people become aware of some of the features available to them - I know I have educated several other users.
Someone needs to inform these jokers that this is the information age and transactional costs are falling and the trend is to provide more services not reduce them.
Show-me
Well-known member
National Association of Postal Supervisors
Louis Atkins, Executive Vice President
1727 King Street, Suite 400
Alexandria, VA 22314-2753
Phone (703) 836-9660
Fax (703) 836-9665
National Treasury Employee Union
Collen Kelley, National President
1750 H Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20007
(202) 572-5500
Uniformed Services use:
The Department of Defense
Attn: Colonel Adrienne Fraser-Darling, USMC
1400 Defense Pentagon
Washington, DC 20310-1400
Note: No solid address yet, but this is close. I will work on it some more.
National Association of Letter Carriers, AFL-CIO
James Sauber, Research Director
100 Indiana Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001-2144
(202) 393-4695 or (800) 424-5186 for NALC Retirement Dept.
American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO
Myke Reid, Director Legislative Dept.
1300 L Street NW
Washington, DC 20005
(202) 842-4210
NARFE National Headquarters
Richard Ostergren
606 N. Washington ST.
Alexandria, VA 22314
Phone: (703) 838-7760 Fax (703) 838-7785
National Association of Government Employees
John Albanese
159 Burgin Parkway
Quincy, MA 02169
617-376-0220
toll free: 866-412-7762
Fax
Executive Office: 617-472-7566
Legal Department: 617-376-0285
Membership Department: 617-376-0469
Communications Department: 617-984-5695
American Federation of Government Employees, AFL-CIO
Susan Thomas
80 F Street, NW
Washington, DC 20001
(202) 737-8700
comments@afge.org
National League of Postmasters
Charles W. Mapa, President
5904 Richmond Hwy, Suite 500
Alexandria, VA 22303-1864
O: (703) 329-4550
F: (703) 329-0466
E-Mail: cmapa@postmasters.org
Federal Managers Association
Darryl Perkinson, President
1641 Prince St.
Alexandria, VA
22314-2818
Phone: (703) 683-8700
Fax: (703) 683-8707
E-Mail: DarrylFMA@cox.net
National Rural Letter Carriers’ Association
Clifford Dailing, Secretary-Treasurer
1630 Duke Street
Alexandria, VA 22314-3467
703-684-5545
National Association of Postmasters of the United States
Dale Goff, President
8 Herbert Street
Alexandria, VA 22305-2600
Voice: 703-683-9027
Fax: 703-683-6820
General e-mail: napusinfo@napus.org
Note: It has the contact name listed as Oscar Goff, but Dale Goff is the President.
Senior Executives Association
Richard Strombotne
820 First Street N.E.
Suite 700
Washington, DC 20002
(202) 927-7000
National Federation of Federal Employees
Richard Brown, President
805 15th Street, NW Suite 500
Washington, DC 20005
202-216-4420 (main) · 202-898-1861 (fax)
Federally Employed Women
Sharon Roydes, Treasurer
1666 K Street, N.W. Suite 440
Washington, DC 20006
Phone: (202) 898-0994
Email: roydes@sbcglobal.netI'm worried that some of the people below may not be financially sophisticated enough to understand the difference between active trading and day trading. I'm not sure how you counter the argument that day-trading and casinos are what this is all about. I wonder how many of the list are against tax cuts? Of any sort? I think we may need some outside the box logic. Or a class action suit.
i got the numbers for the legislators (who work capitol hill for the american postal workers) stephen a. albanese (202-842-4210 phone) (202-685-2528 FAX) I have try calling him and he has return my call but we keep on missing each other. he has an operator 24 hours taking calls SO GIVE HIM HELL. i am still trying to find out who represents the postal workers on the employees thrift advisory council. you know tis the seasons working 10 to 12 hours a day six days a week i'm just clerk. ps mike reid numbers are the same as mr. albanese both work capitol hill. good night
Talltimber
Member
Thanks S-M.
Show-me
Well-known member
Show-me
Well-known member
Keep'em come'n!
Here is a little email I want to send out. What do ya think?
Dear *****,
I am not at all happy with the new policy that the FRTIB is proposing to implement. Not only are they trying to limit the number of interfund transfers permanently, they plan to punish anyone who exceeds the temporary limits. In the interim they plan to lock them out of electronic transfers if they exceed the 2 transfer maximum and only allowing mailed transfers. They are sending letters to the 3000 frequent traders to let them know in advance.
This is totally unacceptable because the real reason seems to be the managers of the funds inability to guess the Fair Valuation of the I fund correctly. That is what is really driving the cost up. How about posting the fund prices the next morning and eliminating the Fair Valuation.
I hope that as a member of the Employee Thrift Advisory Board you will protect the freedom to have "no limit on the number of contribution allocation or interfund transfer requests that may be made by a participant" as per Title 5 Chapter VI Part 1601 Subpart D Sec. 1601.32.b.
Title 5 Chapter VI Part 1601 Sec 1601.22 states that I "may make an interfund transfer using the TSP Web site or the ThriftLine". Punishing a individual for making more than two transfers by making them only use the mail would seem to be against the CFR.
Thank you for your time.
oreo
Member
There is a new article in government executive today.
http://www.governmentexecutive.com/dailyfed/1107/112907pb.htm
Limited TradingBy Brittany R. Ballenstedt bballenstedt@govexec.com November 29, 2007
Officials overseeing the Thrift Savings Plan announced last week that they would begin placing restrictions on the number of interfund transfers that participants can conduct each month. And while they tout the restrictions as in the best interest of the plan, many participants do not seem to be warming to the idea.
"This is a mind-boggling step toward a Marxist maneuver involving my retirement account," said Lynn Cook, a senior mechanic with the Army Corps of Engineers. "This is a surly move to gain control or power by some group or individual, and not for the good of the participants."
Officials overseeing the 401(k)-style plan said at a monthly board meeting they would begin allowing participants only two interfund transfers per month in April 2008. Thereafter, additional transfers would be allowed only into the government securities fund.
The change is a result of a recent analysis by TSP officials on the impact of trading activity on fund management and transaction expenses. Officials studied the fund with the highest costs, the international fund, and found that in September and October the average daily trade was $224 million, far above the daily trades of $49 million in 2006 and $27 million in 2005.
The increase in trading volume has caused the TSP to incur transaction expenses of more than $15 million in 2006, up from $2.2 million in 2004, officials said, and that higher trading volume can be attributed to fewer than 3,000 TSP participants engaged in frequent trading.
Still, those day traders do not appear to be the only participants upset by the new restrictions.
Cook said he examines the market on a daily basis, and typically makes one to two transfers per month based on his analysis. While the new restrictions probably will not affect his current trading activity, Cook still rejects any proposal that would alter his right to manage his money.
"It's like having a straight highway with no traffic and putting a 20-mile-per-hour speed limit sign on it," he said. "Solve the problem; don't make everybody pay for it."
Cook and many other participants believe the best solution to regulating trading would be to charge fees after a certain number of trades each month. "I would be just tickled to death with that," he said. "If participants want to trade once a day, then charge them for doing it."
Last week, TSP Executive Director Gregory Long said charging fees for excessive trading was not in the plans, noting that officials were not trying to punish participants or generate revenue. But one TSP participant said in an e-mailed comment that placing blanket restrictions on monthly trading was an even harsher rule.
"I would rather pay a small fee and trade daily than watch my money disappear with a stagnant account in a volatile market," the participant said.
Leon Kattengell, a statistician with the Army, agreed. He said he invests about $7,000 annually in the TSP and conducts two to three transfers monthly. "The market is very volatile, and you don't want to be losing money," he said. "It's just protecting your retirement account."
Kattengell said he believes the real trading costs were not attributable to the 3,000 traders, but rather a result of the cost required to manage the TSP's life-cycle funds, which shift investments from riskier to more conservative blends as participants near retirement.
"The need to balance daily for L funds participants is what's responsible for the fund management cost increase," he said, "and not the interfund transfers of the 3,000 members trying to protect and increase their retirement accounts."
Instead, Kattengell said, the TSP should reduce the number of L funds from five to two and limit participants to five trades a month.
Still, TSP Legislative Director Thomas Trabucco said Wednesday that while officials have heard many complaints about the costs of rebalancing the L funds, it's actually frequent traders who are overwhelming the system. In September and October, for example, when the average daily trade amount in the I Fund was $224 million, TSP found that rebalancing of L funds accounted for $16 million, while frequent trading accounted for $142 million.
"There are over 500,000 L fund investors, but just 3,000 frequent traders," Trabucco said.
Long said TSP will discuss the trading restrictions with the Employee Thrift Advisory Council, which consists of labor unions and other federal employee groups, before moving forward. Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, said Tuesday that the council is in the process of planning a meeting to discuss the proposal.
"I'm open to the idea that there's a problem and seeing what a viable solution is," Kelley said. "I'm sure we can find a way to fix the problem without penalizing the federal employees in the plan."
FundSurfer
Well-known member
FundSurfer
Well-known member
Here is my modified version. A little wordy but I think it is important for the board to understand why cost have gone up.
Dear *****,
Recently the FRTIB voted to limit TSP interfund transfers to 2 trades per month. I am not at all happy with the new policy that the FRTIB is proposing to implement. The reason given by the board is to reduce cost of frequent traders who drive up cost of trading associated with the I-fund. This cost of trading is not actually the cost of buying and selling stock, but rather cost associated with international markets being closed when daily fund prices are set and fund managers having to guess at the opening prices of international stocks for the following day. If the guess is off, any +/- amount has to be made up as trading cost. Recent market volatility has made this occur on a regular basis over the last several months and several bad guesses in a row and we have a large trading cost bill. The limit on number of trades is totally unacceptable because the real reason for increased cost is the managers of the funds inability to guess the Fair Valuation of the I-fund correctly. That is what is really driving the cost up. A better solution would be to post the fund prices the next morning and eliminate the Fair Valuation. This would be a win-win solution.
The board thinks that the cost is associated with “3000” frequent traders. In February, many more than 3000 people jammed the TSP phone lines moving their money as a reaction to a market drop. That day there was a big FV that turned out to be a bad guess. 3000 people don’t jam phone banks set up for tens of thousands of people. Market volatility will be when even the infrequent trader (right or wrong) will request an interfund transfer. Limiting trades to 2 trades per month will NOT solve this problem.
I hope that as a member of the Employee Thrift Advisory Board you will protect the freedom to have "no limit on the number of contribution allocation or interfund transfer requests that may be made by a participant" as per Title 5 Chapter VI Part 1601 Subpart D Sec. 1601.32.b.Title 5 Chapter VI Part 1601 Sec 1601.22 states that I "may make an interfund transfer using the TSP Web site or the ThriftLine". Punishing a individual for making more than two transfers by making them only use the mail would seem to be against the CFR.Thank you for your time.
Show-me
Well-known member
Just called both. Everyone make the call.
Richard Brown, President
National Federation of Federal Employees
805 15Th Street , NW Suite 500 ,
Washington, DC 20005
USA
Website: www.nffe.org
Phone: (202) 216-4420
Fax: (202) 898-1861
James Sauber
National Association of Letter Carriers
100 Indiana Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20001-2144
USA
Website: www.nalc.org
Phone: (202) 393-4695Similar threads
