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The Tariff Talk
- Thread starter tsptalk
- Start date
Buffalo_Nickle
Member
Do we actually import anything from Russia? I know we pay them a lot of money for their space craft going to and from ISS.Russia
ustr.gov
Person, woman, man, camera, TV. He's listening to Lutnick and Navarro
weatherweenie
Well-known member
Oh Wilber. Yeah, I'm Mr Ed, reruns, old.
JTH
Well-known member
"Yawn" another day of shock & awe.
Every day my wife comes home from work and reports to me "Did you hear what Trump did?" and waits for some expression of surprise on my face (that I am incapable of giving).
Someone recently said, the US is the #1 consumer of goods across the world, we are the #1 customer and the customer is always right. DJT perhaps has only 1 viable tool in the shed for tariffs, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Every day my wife comes home from work and reports to me "Did you hear what Trump did?" and waits for some expression of surprise on my face (that I am incapable of giving).
Someone recently said, the US is the #1 consumer of goods across the world, we are the #1 customer and the customer is always right. DJT perhaps has only 1 viable tool in the shed for tariffs, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
evilanne
Well-known member
My first thought was Vodka but it is not very much, https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrob...imports-into-us-are-almost-at-asterisk-level/ Per AI : The U.S. primarily imports fertilizers, non-ferrous metals, and inorganic chemicals from Russia. In 2024, the total value of U.S. imports from Russia was approximately $3.0 billion, with fertilizers being the most significant commodity.
Thanks.
FireWeatherMet
Well-known member
I want to ask this group...WHAT DO YOU HOPE THE US ACHIEVES WITH THESE TARIFFS?
The economic reasons make absolutely no sense to me.
1) If you feel other countries have a trade imbalance with the US:
Many economists on various business news interviews have pointed out the reason the US has a greater trade imbalance with almost all other countries (except China & India) is simply because our population is larger. We're always going to buy more from other countries than they buy from us, because we have 320 Million people, vs Japan 123 Million, Germany 90 Million, Canada 40 Million etc.
2) If you feel we need to bring manufacturing back to the US:
The ONLY reason manufacturing jobs were good jobs 30-50 years ago was simply because they were STRONGLY UNIONIZED.
But now unions have been decimated in the private sector, they used to represent 35% of the labor force, now its more like 5%, and most of those are in Gov't and the UAW. More than half of US states, the ones who used to rely on manufacturing, are now "Right to Work" states which make it harder to have unions. SO HOW DO WE BENEFIT BY BRINGING MANUFACTURING BACK if they're likely to be low paying jobs with no fixed pensions or "Cadillac HC Plans"? No one is going to want to work on an assembly line putting plastic toys together for $15/hr and sub-par employee benefits.
AND to make matters worse, we are still below statistical "Full Employment" (<5% Unemployment) and have labor shortages already in most states, so there's no way to fill millions of new low wage manufacturing jobs unless (drumroll please) we open up the southern border and let millions of migrants back up into the US to feel these jobs. Thats basically the labor pool for those who currently clean hotel rooms, work construction, agriculture and at restaurants these days.
DO YOU NOW SEE HOW FRIKIN STUPID THIS WHOLE TARIFF IDEA IS??
But if you disagree, and have a strong counter argument, please feel free to share.
The economic reasons make absolutely no sense to me.
1) If you feel other countries have a trade imbalance with the US:
Many economists on various business news interviews have pointed out the reason the US has a greater trade imbalance with almost all other countries (except China & India) is simply because our population is larger. We're always going to buy more from other countries than they buy from us, because we have 320 Million people, vs Japan 123 Million, Germany 90 Million, Canada 40 Million etc.
2) If you feel we need to bring manufacturing back to the US:
The ONLY reason manufacturing jobs were good jobs 30-50 years ago was simply because they were STRONGLY UNIONIZED.
But now unions have been decimated in the private sector, they used to represent 35% of the labor force, now its more like 5%, and most of those are in Gov't and the UAW. More than half of US states, the ones who used to rely on manufacturing, are now "Right to Work" states which make it harder to have unions. SO HOW DO WE BENEFIT BY BRINGING MANUFACTURING BACK if they're likely to be low paying jobs with no fixed pensions or "Cadillac HC Plans"? No one is going to want to work on an assembly line putting plastic toys together for $15/hr and sub-par employee benefits.
AND to make matters worse, we are still below statistical "Full Employment" (<5% Unemployment) and have labor shortages already in most states, so there's no way to fill millions of new low wage manufacturing jobs unless (drumroll please) we open up the southern border and let millions of migrants back up into the US to feel these jobs. Thats basically the labor pool for those who currently clean hotel rooms, work construction, agriculture and at restaurants these days.
DO YOU NOW SEE HOW FRIKIN STUPID THIS WHOLE TARIFF IDEA IS??
But if you disagree, and have a strong counter argument, please feel free to share.
I am not sure where tariffs will lead us to, but I know one major purpose/outcome of tariffs: REDUCING CONSUMPTION.
The U.S. has the highest per-capita comsumption in the world. We Americans consume nearly twice as mush as our counterparts in other developed (i.e. European) countries, more than double Japan, and six times as much as China. The reason we can consume so much is because other countries are able to ship their products into our country and sell them so cheaply. On the surface, this is great, but we cannot go on consuming like this forever, unless we have a perfect society where everyone is well-educated, skilled, productive, and compensated; and personal wealth is widely and evenly distributed. We know that this is not the case, so some time down the line, our country will diminish while other countries in the world will emerge stronger.
We hear so much complaining about tariffs not because life will be so terrible in the U.S., but because people will not be able to consume as much as before. I am far from being an environmentalist or a tree hugger, but I think a little less consumption would not hurt us at all.
Of course, tariffs will cause chaos and disruptions. Companies will have to adjust and adapt to the new reality. Their stock prices will be hit hard, but we as a society will survive and come out better, in my humble opinion.
The U.S. has the highest per-capita comsumption in the world. We Americans consume nearly twice as mush as our counterparts in other developed (i.e. European) countries, more than double Japan, and six times as much as China. The reason we can consume so much is because other countries are able to ship their products into our country and sell them so cheaply. On the surface, this is great, but we cannot go on consuming like this forever, unless we have a perfect society where everyone is well-educated, skilled, productive, and compensated; and personal wealth is widely and evenly distributed. We know that this is not the case, so some time down the line, our country will diminish while other countries in the world will emerge stronger.
We hear so much complaining about tariffs not because life will be so terrible in the U.S., but because people will not be able to consume as much as before. I am far from being an environmentalist or a tree hugger, but I think a little less consumption would not hurt us at all.
Of course, tariffs will cause chaos and disruptions. Companies will have to adjust and adapt to the new reality. Their stock prices will be hit hard, but we as a society will survive and come out better, in my humble opinion.
FireWeatherMet
Well-known member
You do realize that if we "reduce consumption" we "reduce our economy" ie weaken our economy.
How would this lead to a better outcome...is my humble question?
I have no problem with tariffs if done correctly through negotiation. Not this bully in the room capitulation. Sure, other countries will talk but at what price of our respect and trust.
I have no problem reducing the federal work force and finding money spent where it shouldn't be. If you can show that this area needs to be reduced and why and showing that the money is not being spent wisely.
I have no problem with judges saying that it is against the law, and you need to stop what you're doing but it shouldn't be up to the judges making these decisions if congress and the senate grew a spine and did their job.
I have no problem reducing the federal work force and finding money spent where it shouldn't be. If you can show that this area needs to be reduced and why and showing that the money is not being spent wisely.
I have no problem with judges saying that it is against the law, and you need to stop what you're doing but it shouldn't be up to the judges making these decisions if congress and the senate grew a spine and did their job.
JTH
Well-known member
I don't try to understand it, don't need to.
Everything discussed is clearly outlined in Project 2025's THE CASE FOR FAIR TRADE by Peter Navarro.
The same Peter Navarro who is DJT's Senior Counselor for Trade and Manufacturing.
He's an "academic economist" meaning he's dumber than dirt. Prior to hitching his wagon to DJT, he retired as a Professor Emeritus.
So yea he can writer a paper, but has no real-world experience, he's right on China, but that's nothing new or cutting edge.
Anyhow Project 2025 is the Blueprint, and my disdain for economist continues...
Everything discussed is clearly outlined in Project 2025's THE CASE FOR FAIR TRADE by Peter Navarro.
The same Peter Navarro who is DJT's Senior Counselor for Trade and Manufacturing.
He's an "academic economist" meaning he's dumber than dirt. Prior to hitching his wagon to DJT, he retired as a Professor Emeritus.
So yea he can writer a paper, but has no real-world experience, he's right on China, but that's nothing new or cutting edge.
Anyhow Project 2025 is the Blueprint, and my disdain for economist continues...
WorkFE
Well-known member
1. I'll give you credit for numbers after I figure out the per capita figure using the populations but not Germany. They are part of the EU and that group has a tendency to talk business individually or as a union, which ever one benefits their country or union the most. And the population of the EU is 445 Million.
2. More like 11% IAW BLS. For the record I am not anti-union. I just don't understand why one needs to pay union dues and a portion of their taxes also goes to the Department of Labor. The Mission Goal is literally "To foster, promote, and develop the welfare of the wage earners, job seekers, and retirees of the United States; improve working conditions; advance opportunities for profitable employment; and assure work-related benefits and rights".
FireWeatherMet
Well-known member
You asked the purpose of Unions.
1) 10%-20% higher wages.
2) Unionized workers with no high school diploma have 300% the wealth of their nonunion peers.
2) Cadillac HC plans
3) Defined Pension Plans plus 401K plans
4) Better Job Security.
With all those in place, making $20/hr may not be see bad.
Without all those benefits, and a salary of $17/hr, few will want those jobs.
There's your answer.
WorkFE
Well-known member
Sounds good to me. Now all we have to do is abolish the Department of Labor, which was my point.
FYSA. My wife is a 27 Year Walmart Employee. Better 401K Match than a Federal Employee and 15% match on stock purchases. Oh, and if having over a million dollars makes you a millionaire, she is one and she hasn't been in management for the last ten years.
rangerray
Well-known member
There’s a grand plan to this tariff situation and it’s being revealed and will continue to be revealed. How easily people bet against the United States, though. It seems the media works 10 times as hard to put a negative spin on EVERYTHING because Trump just can’t be right. Now I’m hearing that this is all about Trump manipulating the market. You think? By all accounts, the market is prepared for GOOD news, so I don’t think everyone is betting against the USA, but, in the still of negotiations the haters hate when it would be better to wait.
My personal opinion is that all of this is designed to get at communist China, our adversary that has managed to fill the shelves of every retailer in the country with cheap crap that either does not work or does not last.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My personal opinion is that all of this is designed to get at communist China, our adversary that has managed to fill the shelves of every retailer in the country with cheap crap that either does not work or does not last.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
