Question about TSP in general

[wht00ss]

I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light on the fact other than the party line from TSP (e.g. unsophisticated investors, costs, etc.) as to why there are such a limited choice of funds.

As a point of reference on my personal account my REIT fund which compromises about 7% of my total portfolio from Jan. 3 to Feb. 8 posted a return of 12.45% when I took profits. The increase in value from this reit transaction to my account was $121,000 for a little over a month of basically watching and doing nothing.

From my limited time on this website there seems to be some savvy traders/investors who are killing themselves for 4,5, and 6% so I would be pretty pissed off by the lack of choices.

My only TSP interaction comes from trading my wife's account which is a fun hobby and sometimes fruitful one.

As a side note are there any TSP TALKers who have consistently beat the indices (significantly) year in and year out as well as avoided the down years?

white

 

[SkyPilot]

The party line is established by those in control (TSP Board) and the reasons you state are the very reasons they identify. Nothing to sinister there...

However, there seem to be a number of studies that indicate greater options do not necessarily produce better results or greater participation.

And while you have done well with your REIT over as short period of time, the result can easily be the opposite in a much shorter period of time.

And no, I am not pi$$ed off. My returns so far this year would produce approximately a 30%+ annualized return. Maybe not too impressive to some, but really good for me.

Good luck!

 

[wht00ss]

My reit earned me 35% for the year of 2006 so it wasn't just a 1 month play.
My only point is it would be nice to other options.

white

 

[SkyPilot]

You obviously have other options, just not within TSP . And, you are evidently doing quite well with them.

Actually, I am quite content with TSP at the time. However, a precious metals fund might be interesting.

I would settle for a later daily deadline... :nuts:

 

[Birchtree]

Will that be a 15% tax or a 35% tax - that'll make a difference. TSP has limited selections because of politics - Uncle still doesn't trust us enough to really manage our own money. And most of the hippity hoppers are just playing hard to make a small difference. But when an individual reaches a certain plateau in value the potential can certainly be rewarding. The only problem is that generally when those levels are reached we are near retirement and often cautioned to be conservative. I'm not going to follow those wise words, but rather trade my account to make another $500K before the sun sets. So I'm hear to learn to be a trader - I already know how to invest. I wanna be a gunslinger - shoot from both hips and ask questions later.

 

[Spaf]

My reit earned me 35% for the year of 2006 so it wasn't just a 1 month play.
My only point is it would be nice to other options.

I think you have to consider who the choir is! It's not us!
What do the participants in TSP represent: age? market savy? etc.

 

[nnuut]

Comon! :suspicious:

 

[wht00ss]

As a point of reference on my personal account my REIT fund which compromises about 7% of my total portfolio..posted a return of 12.45%... The increase in value from this reit transaction to my account was $121,000

Here's th math. You need 14 million dollars in your portfolio for a 12.45% gain on only 7% of the total portfolio to equal $121,000.

14 million! We are all government employees here trying to do the best we can. You obviously don't really need to learn anything here, so why don't you just p!ss off and do one of your other fun hobbies.

I thought my question was pretty clear but for some reason making money might not agree with you. By the way, your math is just a little short on the amount.

For a little background I am a retired 78 year old marine corps officer who fought in two wars and had three careers with my last career being a stock broker for about 17 years with the majority of that time with Merrill Lynch and God willing a few more years trading my own account for my kids and grandkids.

I will let you in on a little secret about the brokerage business. Most stock brokers make more money trading their own accounts than their clients so any halfway decent broker can do fairly well. Perhaps with your math skills you should give the series 7 a shot and go to work for yourself although no offense you sound like many of the neophyte clients I had when I first started in the business who would invest their 2k and call you everyday to see how it was doing.

I would like to apologize if the idea of having made money and talking about making more money offends you. I thought that was kind of the idea of why we are all here. My TSP interests only encompass my wife's account. She's been with the feds for 39 years but try as I may I just can't get her to retire.

As a side note to the moderator nnuut if "comon" is your idea of moderating do me a favor and if I'm on any lists related to your website please delete me.

thanks

white

 

[nnuut]

Comon, just letting the members know i'm here. wht00ss if you are who you say you are, you are more than welcome here. Your type of experience would be a great addition to our knowledge base. TRAFFIC_DOG was only questioning your validity due to the amount of money involved. Yes there are successful people out there that may have interests in the TSP. Welcome, if I may be of assistance just contact me.
Norman
Nice Dog, Chow?

 

[TRAFFIC_DOG]

I thought my question was pretty clear but for some reason making money might not agree with you. By the way, your math is just a little short on the amount.

For a little background I am a retired 78 year old marine corps officer who fought in two wars and had three careers with my last career being a stock broker for about 17 years with the majority of that time with Merrill Lynch and God willing a few more years trading my own account for my kids and grandkids.

I will let you in on a little secret about the brokerage business. Most stock brokers make more money trading their own accounts than their clients so any halfway decent broker can do fairly well. Perhaps with your math skills you should give the series 7 a shot and go to work for yourself although no offense you sound like many of the neophyte clients I had when I first started in the business who would invest their 2k and call you everyday to see how it was doing.

I would like to apologize if the idea of having made money and talking about making more money offends you. I thought that was kind of the idea of why we are all here. My TSP interests only encompass my wife's account. She's been with the feds for 39 years but try as I may I just can't get her to retire.

As a side note to the moderator nnuut if "comon" is your idea of moderating do me a favor and if I'm on any lists related to your website please delete me.

thanks

white

I'm very happy for your success, and I have zero problem with anyone making all the money they possibly can. That's not my problem with the first post, in fact I'm more put off now than I was.

"I will let you in on a little secret about the brokerage business."

I know all the secrets of the brokerage business, number one being it's a sales job. They peddle products that wholesalers peddle to them.

I know I would do well on the series 7 ,thank you, as I coached my brother inlaw through the options portion of it.

I'm hardly a neophyte and for that matter feel I know more about investing than any of the broker/peddlers that I've known including the one who's now a general partner in one of the countries largest firms.
Almost everything that comes out of their mouths could be an old script from CNBC.

Here's what bothers me, and its back to your first post. Go back and read it and see if it could be taken this way.

" Hey, what's up with killing yourself trying to squeeze a few % out of these limited funds. If I were you I'd be pretty mad. Here's how easy it can be... Throw a mil into a REIT, come back in a month and you make 100k. Why don't you guys have REITs again? Anyway some of you guys seem to be doing really good , but has anyone been perfect in all markets over many years?"

Why do you care? Are you here looking to follow someone one the board.
I don't think so.

I took exception with that post because I have to kill myself trying to get an extra 3 to 5% for 10 or 15 years. It makes a huge difference in my retirement. You made your wealth in different circumstances, and I don't need you coming here flaunting it... cheers

 

[Birchtree]

Well gosh, we all have our fickel finger of fate fleeting moments. I'm glad to have you both here - if I recall traffic dog is a real poet. White, I've experienced similar attention from several members in my past and it's part of our social what ever you want to call it. Did you catch a south paw today. I caught a round house but managed to stay standing. I'm excited about the opening tomorrow - staying in front of the train. Anyway, it's time to bleed a little and have fun in the process. Snort.

 

[fabijo]

I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light on the fact other than the party line from TSP (e.g. unsophisticated investors, costs, etc.) as to why there are such a limited choice of funds.

...

From my limited time on this website there seems to be some savvy traders/investors who are killing themselves for 4,5, and 6% so I would be pretty pissed off by the lack of choices.

I see what you're saying. Between all of us on this board, we should be able to come up with a strong argument and petition to introduce the other types of funds that TSP has considered. We all know what the Thrift Investment Board says about adding REITs, precious metals, commodities, etc. But we should be able to come up with an eloquent and convincing counter argument that somebody should listen to.

To start us off on developing that convincing argument, I'd like to suggest that if the Thrift Investment Board introduced other, more risky, investment options, they do not provide any of them as a choice for a TSP participant unless that participant takes some sort of correspondence training about the risks involved. Just that requirement alone should filter out plenty of people who don't want to bother.

 

[Spaf]

Traffic Dog, Wht00ss
You will be getting a PM from me, please read, Thanks Spaf

 

[wht00ss]

Well gosh, we all have our fickel finger of fate fleeting moments. I'm glad to have you both here - if I recall traffic dog is a real poet. White, I've experienced similar attention from several members in my past and it's part of our social what ever you want to call it. Did you catch a south paw today. I caught a round house but managed to stay standing. I'm excited about the opening tomorrow - staying in front of the train. Anyway, it's time to bleed a little and have fun in the process. Snort.

I have a significant portion of funds in a laddered muni portfolio but for the overall portfolio I took about a 1% hit ( about $140,000 ).

 

[Wheels]

I have a significant portion of funds in a laddered muni portfolio but for the overall portfolio I took about a 1% hit ( about $140,000 ).

I'm with Traffic Dog here. This board is made up of participants who are hoping to one day amass maybe 1 million in their accounts, as a needed supplement to their retirements. A one sentence post to state that you lost 1% of your 14 million dollar portfolio is offensive. Furthermore I believe it was intended to be so.

 

[kitepig]

Hello all,
As this is my first post in this forum, I shouldn't jump into the middle of heated conversation.. but I'm always doing things I shouldn't.

I got to agree with White, the selections available in the TSP suck! And the fact that you can't trade stocks or ETF's or Options sucks even more. The TSP was designed for people that don't understand anything about finance... BUT! its the only tax deferred plan we have. So I am very appreciative to the people on this site that help us squeez out a couple of extra percentage points.

And White, As a former money manager shouldn't you respect that?

Lastly, in my opinion this site offers some excellent analysis and insite into the markets, which helps me with some of my other investments.

 

[vic]

Well said kitepig. TSP is not perfect but it has afforded the majority of us an oppurtunity to invest over the years when we possibly would not have had the know how or time. With payroll deduction and the tax advantage it offered, it was a no brainer. Could it be better?, you bet. Should we have been offered better information or some sort of guidance on how to invest? I was basicaly told I could only invest in the G fund for a number of years. This site has been a great learning experience for me. I was lucky. Thru out the mid 90s I put it all in the C fund and doubled my money. That was blind luck.The analysis that is offered by the members of this board has given me insite on how the market works and what to look for when moving money. I want to thank every one for the hard work they do to keep us all informed.

 

[Show-me]

My two cent. Boy are you in for it! LOL

I think many of us agree the choices for the TSP are extremely limited. I do. At first I thought what the heck, all these choice in the market and we get five. Then my friend Spaf said why not open a Brokerage Account.

TSP is more of a Savings vehicle than a market trading account. Operating cost are extremely low for a reason and the simplicity is in the design for everyone, but more catered to the lower income folks or those that can't be bothered with it, or folks that think their pension will take care of everything, or folks just not as savvy yet, because they have not found www.TSPTalk.com yet.

wht00ss does not need a TSP account for anything other than his wifes %5 match from her paycheck. For that matter neither does anyone else that can open a Brokerage Account and manage their fund them self. Which would be anyone reading this post. The real purpose of the TSP, I believe, is to provide a vehicle for those who could not manage their money very well. TSP provides simple, easy, limited, low cost, and completely electronic Savings for retirement.

My point here is it is the electronic age. Use it to your advantage. Open a Brokerage Account whether it is an IRA, ROTH, an individual account, or all of the above. Put your 5% in the TSP and send an allotment to you Brokerage Account and WALLAH. You can trade anything you heart desires.

That would give you more options also if you need to put some additional monies in your IRA to get more of a tax advantage. Like I did this year. Did my taxes and realized I made $250 too much money and if you could lower my income by that amount I would get $200 more back from the IRS. Bingo!

Keep TSP simple and low cost IMHO!

 

[Show-me]

Now as a Moderator, perhaps in the interest of peace and tranquility actual monetary amount should be exclude from discussions on the open MB. I can understand someone questioning the validity of account statements, but on the other hand dollar amounts can emphasis a point that one is trying to make. Mostly we should never be offended that someone has a "Oceanic Account". Those people are the ones you want to pick their brains about everything possible. Especially if they earned it in the market.

Rod is a prime example. I have not sat down and tabulated his net worth based on all the properties he has spoken of. I do not give a crap about his net worth. I'm not keeping score. What I do care about is the fact that Rod is "wired for sound" when it comes to real estate investing and rentals. He has EXPERIENCE and is willing to SHARE!!!! That is what we all need on the MBs. Experienced people willing to share their knowledge.

So every be patient with each other and be respectful of each other. Tempers may be easily set off due to the current market action. Don't be short with each other. We all can learn from each other.

 

[airlift]

I agree!