Oil Slick Stuff

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Well, by Nov 18th, oil could be down to $50/bbl...and if OPEC halts the decline then....okay, I'm good with that..:)
 
Reuters
Oil falls $2 as demand concerns outweigh OPEC
Thursday October 9, 2:42 pm ET
By Matthew Robinson NEW YORK (Reuters) - Oil prices fell more than $2 to below $87 a barrel on Thursday as expectations that the financial crisis could further slow demand outweighed calls by some OPEC members to cut output to prop up prices.
The producer group announced it will hold an emergency meeting on November 18 in Vienna to discuss the impact of the financial crisis on oil markets, which has helped knock prices from a record peak over $147 a barrel in July.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/081009/business_us_markets_oil.html

CRISIS?!? They've been making BILLIONS in the market the last year and there's a CRISIS? Did drilling for oil, shipping the oil, and refining the oil become that more EXPENSIVE???

Come on $40/barrel. I hope they choke on their reserves.:notrust:
 
OPEC raises the prices, lets our consumers know we HAVE to develop non-oil based gasoline. Just to watch OPEC go into a tailspin would be worth it.
 
Global oil demand to weaken - forecast

International Energy Agency says inflation, economic instability to shrink growth in demand for oil this year and next.

Last Updated: October 10, 2008: 8:08 AM ET



crudeprices.mkw.gif


PARIS (AP) -- The International Energy Agency made new cuts Friday to its global oil demand forecasts for this year as economic conditions in developed nations worsened amid financial turmoil and inflation, and said demand would weaken further in 2009.
The agency said that tight credit conditions were also beginning to crimp supply, not just demand, by slowing the pace of investment by oil producers.
In its monthly report, the Paris-based energy watchdog cut its forecast for oil demand this year by 240,000 barrels per day, and slashed its 2009 forecast by 440,000 barrels per day. The IEA now expects global oil demand to total 86.5 million barrels per day this year and 87.2 million barrels per day next year.
Big impact
The IEA cited "rapidly weakening economic conditions, financial turmoil and high prices" as having a "marked" impact on oil demand in developed nations belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, especially the United States.
The revised figures came on top of cuts the IEA made last month, and leave the forecast for global oil demand growth at 0.5% this year and 0.8% next year.
Lowered GDP [more]
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/10/news/international/energy_demand.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008101008
 
nnuut said:
DRILL - BABY - DRILL!! :nuts:
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Yeah, we send all that money to our enemies, well some to some folks they are our enemies, others they are a workers paradise. It’s too bad this will just fall on deaf ears. We can’t afford to eliminate any possible source of energy right now. We have to use every bullet in our arsenal until we can develop an economically realistic alternative fuel. Right now there is no alternative fuel available that will get food, clothes and other goods to market except oil. We need a Manhattan type effort to develop an alternative fuel that will maintain the quality of life that our children and grandchildren can enjoy. That is every parents dream. Until then drill baby drill.

CB
 
That's old now, Left and Right coasts open. U.S. still only has 3% of the world's reserves of oil. We HAVE to STOP only looking at oil.

I wanna talk about Natural Gas!

We have one of the world's largest reserves of natural gas, and it is even found in places oil's not. Can we talk about Natural Gas Cars now? Have they gotten around the need for Pallidum or Platinum for the gas tanks, since again Platium/Pallidium reserves are found mostly in unfriendly (like Russia) countries?
 
Silverbird said:
That's old now, Left and Right coasts open. U.S. still only has 3% of the world's reserves of oil. We HAVE to STOP only looking at oil.

I wanna talk about Natural Gas!

We have one of the world's largest reserves of natural gas, and it is even found in places oil's not. Can we talk about Natural Gas Cars now? Have they gotten around the need for Pallidum or Platinum for the gas tanks, since again Platium/Pallidium reserves are found mostly in unfriendly (like Russia) countries?
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The state of Utah has a bunch of vehicles running on Nat Gas and it's my understanding that Honda's Dayton, OH can't keep up with the request for Nat Gas Cars. We used to have a fleet of Nat Gas cars where I work and they ran great, but GSA sold them for lack of infrastructure (filling stations in our area). I love the idea of Nat Gas. The distrubtion pipeline system is pretty much in place nationally because of the use of Nat Gas for heating and the production of electricity. For the life of me, I can't figure why the Pols aren't pushing it more. It makes so much sense.

CB
 
CB:

1. Distribution is still an issue. Costs about 50 to 60K for a single dispensing device. Even though NG may be in an area, it still has to be high-compressed. Profit margin is small, so there is the 60K per pump cost to figure out how to make worthwhile.

2. NG is also a fossile fuel, and does CO2 just as gasoline does.

3. There is a finite amount of NG. Once it is gone, it's gone.

There is lots of discussion about getting NG as one part of a transition process before we get to a renewable fuel in this nation- which is where we have to end up eventually- one of the questions now being debated is do we invest the 60K per pump (or, like 250K per station if there are multiple pumps) to refit existing stations, or do we instead work to build ethanol infrastucture (8K per station, and 5K per pump), and have a renewable source in place at the completion of that.

That's part of the debate the country has been doing, and will be doing for the next couple years.

P.S.- My money is on ethanol for the majority of energy needs that cannot be accomplished with solar/wind/renewable electric in the years ahead. NG will be helpful in areas where ehtanol can't economically reach, but is just one part of the big picture to get us free of oil.
 
Silverbird said:
That's old now, Left and Right coasts open. U.S. still only has 3% of the world's reserves of oil. We HAVE to STOP only looking at oil.

I wanna talk about Natural Gas!

We have one of the world's largest reserves of natural gas, and it is even found in places oil's not. Can we talk about Natural Gas Cars now? Have they gotten around the need for Pallidum or Platinum for the gas tanks, since again Platium/Pallidium reserves are found mostly in unfriendly (like Russia) countries?
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Good points SBird..Just don't lose sight of the fact that like the VIDEO said and CB said..UNTIL we as a nation become self sufficient on those future alternative energy means..we still have millions of cars and vehicles in the air(not cars), on the roads, over the seas..all using OIL or oil derivatives...so we have to keep those rolling till then...But yes, CNG is a good stop gap for now and the future...UPS here all run on it, Shwann's trucks all run on it (they are the home produce/meat/ice cream delvery company), etc. ...We have the means of making it too..some cattle and cattle associated production companies are already powered solely by the methane the livestock produces...So Our direction is in the right way, but let's not hold up the drilling another minute.
 
James... you're in Michigan, right? In your estimation, how quickly could the automakers respond to a government mandate on a 5 to 10 year transition to NG, ethanol, etc. based on regional economic possibilities (i.e. where NG is more economic, where ethanol is more economic, etc.).

-- all this being a transition to a possible end goal of "energy filling stations" where we pay to charge our vehicle "batteries" or pay energy costs to fill our cars up at home.
 
None of these can handle the load!! It's simple, use them all and replace oil dependance as technology improves. What else?:nuts:
 
If we moved cars away from the oil-based gas, I think we would be able to serve our own market with the 3% reserves. That's why I asked about cars only.

The reason why I say I think we can serve other transportation with our own reserves doesn't have to do with the volume, it has to do with the "cracking" of oil - some components are only good for tar, some good for tar and plastics - and one part is good enough for jet fuel. All I know is we would have quite a bit for the petrochemicals (we aren't getting rid of plastics, new petro materials, asphalt....).
 
Silverbird said:
If we moved cars away from the oil-based gas, I think we would be able to serve our own market with the 3% reserves. That's why I asked about cars only.

The reason why I say I think we can serve other transportation with our own reserves doesn't have to do with the volume, it has to do with the "cracking" of oil - some components are only good for tar, some good for tar and plastics - and one part is good enough for jet fuel. All I know is we would have quite a bit for the petrochemicals (we aren't getting rid of plastics, new petro materials, asphalt....).
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Again you are making sense..(I think I'm getting a crush on you:o)

But yes...Plastics are made or being made synthetically, engine oils and other lubricants (some intimate and some industrial) are Synthetic..so good point..it takes the burden off the barrel of oil, so it can be used for the GASOLINE and JET fuel and Diesel fuels to keep the current vehicles rolling..and Cheaply!
 
James48843 said:
CB:

1. Distribution is still an issue. Costs about 50 to 60K for a single dispensing device. Even though NG may be in an area, it still has to be high-compressed. Profit margin is small, so there is the 60K per pump cost to figure out how to make worthwhile.

2. NG is also a fossile fuel, and does CO2 just as gasoline does.

3. There is a finite amount of NG. Once it is gone, it's gone.

There is lots of discussion about getting NG as one part of a transition process before we get to a renewable fuel in this nation- which is where we have to end up eventually- one of the questions now being debated is do we invest the 60K per pump (or, like 250K per station if there are multiple pumps) to refit existing stations, or do we instead work to build ethanol infrastucture (8K per station, and 5K per pump), and have a renewable source in place at the completion of that.

That's part of the debate the country has been doing, and will be doing for the next couple years.

P.S.- My money is on ethanol for the majority of energy needs that cannot be accomplished with solar/wind/renewable electric in the years ahead. NG will be helpful in areas where ehtanol can't economically reach, but is just one part of the big picture to get us free of oil.
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James,

I agree, well almost 100%. But we got to use what we have until other sources are economically viable. I believe when it's cellulose ethanol, then it'll be major source of energy, but the technology isn't there right now. Corn ethanol has corrosive, (requires stainless steel; buy Steel stock) and distribution problems (brand new pipeline distribution system to make it cheap enough for the nation), not to mention the large increase in fertilizer which is flushing down the Mississippi and increasing the dead zone in the Gulf as we speak. When the Greenies here about that drawback, I wonder if the trade off will be worth it. That's one reason I own BP is because they and Dupont are collaborating with some other firms in developing an economically viable process for producing cellulose ethanol. Plus also keeping an eye on that Private Canadian Firm working on a similiar process. But I'm not sure about the corrosive properties of cellulose ethanol, but I don't recall any mention of it being a drawback, but it could be also.

I also don't see how we're going to replace the power produced by Coal fired plants ( Approx 50%) without including Nukes in their somewhere. As green as Califorina is, alternative forms of energy supply only about 1% of the energy that state uses (no link right at hand, this from numerous TV interviews from various organizations). We can bump it to 5%, but we still have a long way to go and maybe my grandchildren will see it, but I won't. Which is no biggie to me.

There is way to many drawbacks, some that you mentioned, for any of these forms to happen overnight or in 10 years. Folks are fighting the construction of Electric transmissions lines required to get wind farms on the net in several states, plus in New York and Oregon, folks are suing Wind Farms companies, due to medical reasons. Something about the noise level produced by the whine of the turbine/generator/blades that cause physical problems. So you can always find a problem with just about any form from being cost prohibitve for the average joe to medical to increased pollution and energy to charge all the electric cars. I costed out what it would cost to run my house on solar. Since I live on a ridge I can get sun, when not cloudy all year round. My southern exposure is also clear. It ran approx. $48K in place. That's what I paid for my place 23 years ago. Most people think you can just slap some solar panels on your roof and you're good to go. Solar homes to be anywhere near viable to the average joe will have to be constructed from scratch, causr the retro fit will be to expensive.

It's going to be a long struggle and when folks energy bills start doubling to pay for alternative energy, especially during times like this, a howl will go up, but then we can always lower the definition of rich from $250K to $90K and just raise more taxes to pay for those. :)

Bottom line is we have to use everything we got now, until the final solution or solutions are found and it's going to take some serious thought, not some knee jerk reaction again.

CB
 
Buster said:
Again you are making sense..(I think I'm getting a crush on you:o)

But yes...Plastics are made or being made synthetically, engine oils and other lubricants (some intimate and some industrial) are Synthetic..so good point..it takes the burden off the barrel of oil, so it can be used for the GASOLINE and JET fuel and Diesel fuels to keep the current vehicles rolling..and Cheaply!
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Well, only a certain percentage of the components in a barrel of crude oil can be used for jet fuels and gasoline. I'm not sure what that percentage is. Petrochemicals/plastics are on the whole less picky or use by-products that are not gasoline-grade ; asphalt you use the %age no good for anything else.
 
Silverbird said:
Well, only a certain percentage of the components in a barrel of crude oil can be used for jet fuels and gasoline. I'm not sure what that percentage is. Petrochemicals/plastics are on the whole less picky or use by-products that are not gasoline-grade ; asphalt you use the %age no good for anything else.
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To clairify: One 42 gallon barrel of crude oil makes about 19½ gallons of gasoline, 9 gallons of fuel oil, 4 gallons of jet fuel, and 11 gallons of other products, including lubricants, kerosene, asphalt, and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics

God Bless Google:D..but here is an intersting site, chuck full of OIL facts
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
 
The History Channel ran a show last month called "The Secrets of Oil". It not only gave the history of oil, but it went thru the entire cracking process and based on the specific gravity of the oil, various products are pulled from defferent levels of the cracking chamber. Only about 50% of a barrel of oil goes to fuel for the combustion engine. It was a fantastic show, but I don't know when or if it'll be on again.

CB
 
CountryBoy said:
The History Channel ran a show last month called "The Secrets of Oil". It not only gave the history of oil, but it went thru the entire cracking process and based on the specific gravity of the oil, various products are pulled from defferent levels of the cracking chamber. Only about 50% of a barrel of oil goes to fuel for the combustion engine. It was a fantastic show, but I don't know when or if it'll be on again.

CB
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:embarrest: Saw that too. That's how I knew anything about "cracking" oil
 
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