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Oil and natural gas drilling in U.S. waters
- Thread starter tsptalk
- Start date
Silverbird
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 27
I heard Shell, Chevron, and/or Exxon might invest in the wells. But not sure if that is wistful thinking or not.
Unfortunately, the buck does stop with the prime contractor, and this is third screwup for BP. Maybe if they had a better track record.
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 912
Silverbird
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 27
How messy is natural gas extraction vs oil?
Can you extract natural gas without hitting oil?
Can you extract natural gas without hitting oil?
nnuut
Moderator | TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 210
I believe it usually sits on top of the Oil, and a well properly drilled can get mostly Natural Gas? No way as messy as Oil! 
It's really not as simple as that, there doesn't have to be Oil where there is Natural gas but sometimes there is, Frac (fracture) drilling is used sometimes, YOUTUBE drilling for Natural Gas, much to learn.
It's really not as simple as that, there doesn't have to be Oil where there is Natural gas but sometimes there is, Frac (fracture) drilling is used sometimes, YOUTUBE drilling for Natural Gas, much to learn.
Last edited:
Buster
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 109
Like Norm said, they are usually together in the same pocket...back in the 20's and 30's when Texas and Oklahoma was bringing in Gushers that shot Oil to the top of the Derricks, the oil was propelled by natural gas...
CountryBoy
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 48
It depends on the geology and therefore what part of the country you are in. Also the way you extract the nat gas, fracking ie Barnett Shale and now the Marcellus Shale or whether the nat gas is under pressure from another source.
In the eastern part of the country, a lot of the nat gas is under it's own pressure, or another source, coal, water whatever. If you have to pump (fracking) a mixture of water,sand and chemicals or commonly called mud into the well, you have to have a collection pond to collect the the runoff from the drilling.
If the nat gas is under it's own pressure, all you need is a pump jack, small collection tank and pipe it to a part of the piping network. Now muss, no fuss except for the intial drilling to sink the well.
In WV, OH and eastern KY, it's very common to see the these pump jacks sitting out in the middle of a field of corn, hay whatever just doing it's thing pumipng gas from the ground. It may have a small donkey engine to keep the pressure up in the tank. My dad's family farm has a Nat Gas well on his farm, that is nothing but a pipe coming outta the ground and running to a bigger line for integration into the network. My great uncle has the small donkey engine and storage tank set-up on his farm.
Now the Marcellus Shale is another animal all itself. If it was being pumped near my property and I had well water, I'd get a baseline water quality test, because the word is they are going to frack some of these wells with carbon dioxide along with the usual method of mud fracking. No one knows what impact this may have on ground water quality. There have been some rumblings in the area of some water well contamination. So everything is a trade off.
The nat gas wells in my part of the country are not accompanied by oil or minimal, so it depends on where you're located and nat gas retreival can be very clean and unobtrusive. If I lived down in the valley, I'd have my property checked, if I owned the mineral rights, becasue there are several of these small wells up and down the valley.
CB
In the eastern part of the country, a lot of the nat gas is under it's own pressure, or another source, coal, water whatever. If you have to pump (fracking) a mixture of water,sand and chemicals or commonly called mud into the well, you have to have a collection pond to collect the the runoff from the drilling.
If the nat gas is under it's own pressure, all you need is a pump jack, small collection tank and pipe it to a part of the piping network. Now muss, no fuss except for the intial drilling to sink the well.
In WV, OH and eastern KY, it's very common to see the these pump jacks sitting out in the middle of a field of corn, hay whatever just doing it's thing pumipng gas from the ground. It may have a small donkey engine to keep the pressure up in the tank. My dad's family farm has a Nat Gas well on his farm, that is nothing but a pipe coming outta the ground and running to a bigger line for integration into the network. My great uncle has the small donkey engine and storage tank set-up on his farm.
Now the Marcellus Shale is another animal all itself. If it was being pumped near my property and I had well water, I'd get a baseline water quality test, because the word is they are going to frack some of these wells with carbon dioxide along with the usual method of mud fracking. No one knows what impact this may have on ground water quality. There have been some rumblings in the area of some water well contamination. So everything is a trade off.
The nat gas wells in my part of the country are not accompanied by oil or minimal, so it depends on where you're located and nat gas retreival can be very clean and unobtrusive. If I lived down in the valley, I'd have my property checked, if I owned the mineral rights, becasue there are several of these small wells up and down the valley.
CB
Buster
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 109
Here is a good read on Oil and Natural Gas wells, which goes along with what Rus and I said.
http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/well_completion.asp
http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/well_completion.asp
CountryBoy
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 48
Thanks Dennis,
Great article, Horse head pump was the name that slipped my mind, though I've heard it called pump jack. I guess that's one of my senior moments. It's too bad I'm still 5 years off from retirement, you lucky pup.
Rus
Silverbird
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 27
Rig survivors: BP ordered shortcut on day of blast
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/oil.rig.warning.signs/index.html?hpt=T2
[If this is true, that limit on liability aka Exxon Valdez just went out the window, replaced by "negligence". Notice, however, that BP is not the only one with allegded shortcuts - Transocean staff missing key people and some may have had sleep deprivation due to work hours.]
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/oil.rig.warning.signs/index.html?hpt=T2
[If this is true, that limit on liability aka Exxon Valdez just went out the window, replaced by "negligence". Notice, however, that BP is not the only one with allegded shortcuts - Transocean staff missing key people and some may have had sleep deprivation due to work hours.]
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 912
Photographs of wildlife caught in the oil, from Boston.com
Seabirds caught in the oil slick on a beach on Louisiana's East Grand Terre Island
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/06/caught_in_the_oil.html
Seabirds caught in the oil slick on a beach on Louisiana's East Grand Terre Island
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/06/caught_in_the_oil.html
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 912
Video of the wildlife:
poolman
Top Return 2008
- Reaction score
- 70
____________________________________________
Stopped watching after 20 seconds. That is so Sad.
BP Really Screwed Up. And they will pay the ultimate price.
_________________________________________________
Stopped watching after 20 seconds. That is so Sad.
BP Really Screwed Up. And they will pay the ultimate price.
_________________________________________________
Buster
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 109
Jim..these images of the wildlife and oil soaked marshes is enough to make anyone murderous...I hope BP mans up and does what's right soon, before someone gets physical and starts shooting CEOs and others involved with BP...I know it feels hopeless, I can't begin to imagine how the Gulf people feel...I can't watch the suffering animals..breaks my heart.
XL-entLady
TSP Pro
- Reaction score
- 48
There was a scifi program where they used the word "frack" instead of a similar swear word. In the area I used to live they used that word a lot too. Because if you cared about the land or owned water rights or used land around the area where they were drilling, you were fracked.
The collection ponds didn't meet EPA specs for keeping fauna out and for leakage. And it didn't matter who complained. Because the oil companies had attorneys who knew how to lose paperwork and keep things tied up in court. And if there was a judgement, well hey, that was just a cost of doing business.
Yeah, I've been cranky since BP started screwing up the Gulf Coast. Because it's the end of the world as we know it. And BP and Transocean and Halliburton and every other associated company knows how to dance away from it. They've been practicing up for years.
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 912
Jim..these images of the wildlife and oil soaked marshes is enough to make anyone murderous...I hope BP mans up and does what's right soon, before someone gets physical and starts shooting CEOs and others involved with BP...I know it feels hopeless, I can't begin to imagine how the Gulf people feel...I can't watch the suffering animals..breaks my heart.
"I hope BP mans up and does what's right" ???
What are you expecting them to do?
Here's your hint- those animals are just the few that have been unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And they are perhaps one millionth of the number of animals killed when this is over. Remember- they are keeping cameras away from a lot of the areas, and there will be oil fouling things FOR YEARS ahead out of this one.
Read and remember the Brown Pelican, which was just taken off the endangered species list last year. It was down to a few breeding pairs in 1970 after the California spill. It has grown back to several thousand birds- but most of them in the marshes along the Gulf Coast. Many have already been found dead. I think this is going to threatened their very survival again.
Bad, bad news.
BP can't do a thing about it.
The oil is there. No flotilla in the world is going to be able to coral that oil. It's going to go where it wants. And, if they are lucky, they'll be able to pick up perhaps 10% of it over the next decade or two.
The rest will just sit- and wait to decay. Wait for mother earth to scrub it clean. But that is going to take some time. Exxon Valdez (1989) was one fifth the size this one is going to become, and they are still finding Exxon Valdez oil pockets today.
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 912
Gulf oil leak may be bigger than BP says
By RAY HENRY, HARRY R. WEBER and SETH BORENSTEIN,
Associated Press Writers Ray Henry, Harry R. Weber
And Seth Borenstein, Associated Press Writers
2 hrs 6 mins ago
NEW ORLEANS – While BP is capturing more oil from its blown-out well with every passing day, scientists on a team analyzing the flow said Tuesday that the amount of crude still escaping into the Gulf of Mexico may be considerably greater than what the government and the company have claimed.
Their assertions — combined with BP's rush to build a bigger cap and its apparent difficulty in immediately processing all the oil being collected — have only added to the impression that the company is still floundering in dealing with the catastrophe.
The cap that was put on the ruptured well last week collected about 620,000 gallons of oil on Monday and another 330,000 from midnight to noon on Tuesday and funneled it to a ship at the surface, said Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, the government's point man on the crisis. That would mean the cap is capturing better than half of the oil, based on the government's estimate that around 600,000 to 1.2 million gallons a day are leaking from the bottom of the sea.
The undersea efforts came as BP Chief Operating Officer Doug Suttles struck an upbeat tone about the anticipated progress of the oil containment in the next week. Suttles told The Associated Press in a stop in Alabama that the arrival of a second vessel in the coming days to help pump the oil from the deepwater gusher could help engineers make even more progress, even as others continued to criticize BP over its handling of the disaster.
A team of researchers and government officials assembled by the Coast Guard and run by the director of the U.S. Geological Survey is studying the flow rate and hopes to present its latest findings in the coming days on what is already the biggest oil spill in U.S. history.
In an interview with The Associated Press, team member and Purdue University engineering professor Steve Wereley said it was a "reasonable conclusion" but not the team's final one to say that the daily flow rate is, in fact, somewhere between 798,000 gallons and 1.8 million gallons.
"BP is claiming they're capturing the majority of the flow, which I think is going to be proven wrong in short order," Wereley said. "Why don't they show the American public the before-and-after shots?"
He added: "It's strictly an estimation, and they are portraying it as fact."
Other members of the team also told AP they expect their findings to show higher numbers than the current government estimate, but they weren't ready to say how much higher.
To install the containment device snugly, BP engineers had to cut away the twisted and broken well pipe. That increased the flow of oil, similar to what happens when a kink is removed from a garden hose. BP and others warned that would happen, and the government said the increase amounted to about 20 percent.
Asked about the containment effort and the uncertainties in estimating how much oil is escaping, Allen said: "I have never said this is going well. We're throwing everything we've got."
Paul Bommer, a University of Texas petroleum and geosystems engineering professor and member of the flow rate team, said cap seems to have made a "dent" in reducing the flow, but there is still a lot of oil coming out. That seemed clear from the underwater "spillcam" video, which continued to show a big plume of gas and oil billowing into the water.
The current equipment collecting the oil being brought to the surface is believed to be nearing its daily processing capacity. BP said it will boost capacity by bringing in a floating platform it believes can process most of the flow, and believes the extra pumping power can help reduce the spill even more by early next week, when President Barack Obama is scheduled to make his fourth visit to the Gulf since the disaster began.
The company also said it will use a device that vaporizes and burns off oil while working to design a new cap that can capture more crude.
Suttles initially said that the spill should be reduced to a "relative trickle" by Monday or Tuesday. BP later sought to clarify the comments by saying that even though the company is optimistic it can make measurable progress in the next week in reducing the flow, it will take more time to reach the point that the spill amounts to a trickle.
In the seven weeks since the oil rig explosion that set off the catastrophe, BP has had to improvise at every turn. The most recent government estimates put the total amount of oil lost at 23.7 million to 51.5 million gallons.
"I think virtually everybody from BP to the state to the Coast Guard was caught flat-footed and did not expect a spill of this magnitude," said Ed Overton, a professor of environmental sciences at Louisiana State University. "Everybody has been playing catch-up."
When asked why BP did not have containment systems on standby in case of a leak, BP spokesman Robert Wine said there was no reason to think an accident on this scale was likely.
"It's unprecedented," he said. "That's why these caps weren't there before."
Kenneth Arnold, an offshore drilling consultant and engineer, said the reason a bigger cap wasn't installed first was that BP probably wanted to start with what it could do quickly, which he said makes sense. He said BP has been working several solutions all along in parallel and deploying them as they can.
"They haven't been waiting for one to fail and then employing the next one," Arnold said.
He added: "The idea you can wave your arm at this and come to a magical solution is just from someone who doesn't understand the problem. We as a nation are used to instant gratification. There is a problem. We want someone to fix it tomorrow. Things are not always that easy."
More: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill
By RAY HENRY, HARRY R. WEBER and SETH BORENSTEIN,
Associated Press Writers Ray Henry, Harry R. Weber
And Seth Borenstein, Associated Press Writers
2 hrs 6 mins ago
NEW ORLEANS – While BP is capturing more oil from its blown-out well with every passing day, scientists on a team analyzing the flow said Tuesday that the amount of crude still escaping into the Gulf of Mexico may be considerably greater than what the government and the company have claimed.
Their assertions — combined with BP's rush to build a bigger cap and its apparent difficulty in immediately processing all the oil being collected — have only added to the impression that the company is still floundering in dealing with the catastrophe.
The cap that was put on the ruptured well last week collected about 620,000 gallons of oil on Monday and another 330,000 from midnight to noon on Tuesday and funneled it to a ship at the surface, said Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, the government's point man on the crisis. That would mean the cap is capturing better than half of the oil, based on the government's estimate that around 600,000 to 1.2 million gallons a day are leaking from the bottom of the sea.
The undersea efforts came as BP Chief Operating Officer Doug Suttles struck an upbeat tone about the anticipated progress of the oil containment in the next week. Suttles told The Associated Press in a stop in Alabama that the arrival of a second vessel in the coming days to help pump the oil from the deepwater gusher could help engineers make even more progress, even as others continued to criticize BP over its handling of the disaster.
A team of researchers and government officials assembled by the Coast Guard and run by the director of the U.S. Geological Survey is studying the flow rate and hopes to present its latest findings in the coming days on what is already the biggest oil spill in U.S. history.
In an interview with The Associated Press, team member and Purdue University engineering professor Steve Wereley said it was a "reasonable conclusion" but not the team's final one to say that the daily flow rate is, in fact, somewhere between 798,000 gallons and 1.8 million gallons.
"BP is claiming they're capturing the majority of the flow, which I think is going to be proven wrong in short order," Wereley said. "Why don't they show the American public the before-and-after shots?"
He added: "It's strictly an estimation, and they are portraying it as fact."
Other members of the team also told AP they expect their findings to show higher numbers than the current government estimate, but they weren't ready to say how much higher.
To install the containment device snugly, BP engineers had to cut away the twisted and broken well pipe. That increased the flow of oil, similar to what happens when a kink is removed from a garden hose. BP and others warned that would happen, and the government said the increase amounted to about 20 percent.
Asked about the containment effort and the uncertainties in estimating how much oil is escaping, Allen said: "I have never said this is going well. We're throwing everything we've got."
Paul Bommer, a University of Texas petroleum and geosystems engineering professor and member of the flow rate team, said cap seems to have made a "dent" in reducing the flow, but there is still a lot of oil coming out. That seemed clear from the underwater "spillcam" video, which continued to show a big plume of gas and oil billowing into the water.
The current equipment collecting the oil being brought to the surface is believed to be nearing its daily processing capacity. BP said it will boost capacity by bringing in a floating platform it believes can process most of the flow, and believes the extra pumping power can help reduce the spill even more by early next week, when President Barack Obama is scheduled to make his fourth visit to the Gulf since the disaster began.
The company also said it will use a device that vaporizes and burns off oil while working to design a new cap that can capture more crude.
Suttles initially said that the spill should be reduced to a "relative trickle" by Monday or Tuesday. BP later sought to clarify the comments by saying that even though the company is optimistic it can make measurable progress in the next week in reducing the flow, it will take more time to reach the point that the spill amounts to a trickle.
In the seven weeks since the oil rig explosion that set off the catastrophe, BP has had to improvise at every turn. The most recent government estimates put the total amount of oil lost at 23.7 million to 51.5 million gallons.
"I think virtually everybody from BP to the state to the Coast Guard was caught flat-footed and did not expect a spill of this magnitude," said Ed Overton, a professor of environmental sciences at Louisiana State University. "Everybody has been playing catch-up."
When asked why BP did not have containment systems on standby in case of a leak, BP spokesman Robert Wine said there was no reason to think an accident on this scale was likely.
"It's unprecedented," he said. "That's why these caps weren't there before."
Kenneth Arnold, an offshore drilling consultant and engineer, said the reason a bigger cap wasn't installed first was that BP probably wanted to start with what it could do quickly, which he said makes sense. He said BP has been working several solutions all along in parallel and deploying them as they can.
"They haven't been waiting for one to fail and then employing the next one," Arnold said.
He added: "The idea you can wave your arm at this and come to a magical solution is just from someone who doesn't understand the problem. We as a nation are used to instant gratification. There is a problem. We want someone to fix it tomorrow. Things are not always that easy."
More: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill
Buster
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 109
Don't question my sincerity Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!...I take personal offense to your tone...I don't need a lecture, especially from you, your a$$hole reply was not warranted…I'm fully aware of all that is going on with this crisis...Get down off your high horse once in a while and address people like you are not looking down your nose at them here...Are you ever capable of having a discussion without coming off with your elitist, condescending manner?
CountryBoy
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 48
AP Essay: Gov't flunks test of trust in Gulf
Nobody led.
Not the president of the United States. Not the chief executive of BP. Not Congress, federal agencies or local elected officials. From its fiery beginning, the Gulf oil spill has stood as a concentrated reminder of why, over four decades, Americans have lost faith in nearly every national institution.
Like Hurricane Katrina, a natural disaster that caused voters to question then-President George W. Bush's credibility, the poisonous geyser at the Gulf's floor threatens to undermine Barack Obama's presidency. More alarmingly, the spill exacerbates the worry that this nation founded on the principle of trust now faces a crisis of faith in its public and private institutions - government and big business particularly.
Before paid cleanup crews started work, the volunteers pulled on rubber gloves and picked up the gooey mess. As they did so, Kaiser said this: "Six months from now the government will lie to us and say everything is fine."
How did we get to this point where people EXPECT their government to lie to them? And what does it say about where we're headed?
Less than two years removed from an election victory built on his promise to fix Washington's broken institutions, Obama now seems a captive of them. His administration's regulators cozied up to the oil industry before the spill and moved slowly afterward to seize control. The president himself often seemed detached.
Who else dropped the ball?
-BP and its chief executive, Tony Hayward. As his company's oil filled up the Gulf, he had the audacity to complain that "I'd like my life back."
-The Minerals Management Service, the regulatory agency that failed to clean up its act despite Obama's promise during the campaign to end the "cozy relationship" between the oil industry and federal regulators.
-Even the Coast Guard - the one agency that survived Katrina with its image enhanced - is now being criticized for its lack of transparency and command.
And the public stews. Listen to Billy Nugesser, president of the coastal Plaquemines Parish: "We are dying a slow death here."
The public's unconditional faith in national institutions is dying, too.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/07/v-print/1667390/ap-essay-govt-fails-latest-test.html
There is a lot of blame to go around. And the folks calling for a moratorium on all drilling and mining, because it is dangerous, doesn't have the sense God gave a goose. More people are killed driving, so by the above logic, we should a moratrorium on driving, because it is dangerous. We gotta get a grip on reality here, we need to drive or we just go back to horses, which I ride all the time, and we need energy or we go back to aaahhh, horse again.
And it used to be innocent until rpoven guilty, but this thuggish regime is already place blame and guilt, well he'd better look at his own people also and since he called for the firing on BP's CEO, maybe BO had better step down also, because the last I looked the Coast Guard and Minerals Management Service are part of "his Company"
Oh yeah, don't drive a GM or the windshield wiper fluid may burst into flames, fire the CEO, oh yeah that's BO again since the Gov't owns 62% of Government Motors. That was part of paying off the loan that GM so proudly announced. Heck folks all they did was dump that and the pension on the American people.
The recall of GM cars doesn't bother me, because that will continue to be a way of life, recallls. But when did we became such a nation of whiners and crybabies, until Uncle Sugar comes in to wipe our noses? I'm pretty disgusted. The Government needs to get outta our lifes and quit telling us what to do and how to live.
Nobody led.
Not the president of the United States. Not the chief executive of BP. Not Congress, federal agencies or local elected officials. From its fiery beginning, the Gulf oil spill has stood as a concentrated reminder of why, over four decades, Americans have lost faith in nearly every national institution.
Like Hurricane Katrina, a natural disaster that caused voters to question then-President George W. Bush's credibility, the poisonous geyser at the Gulf's floor threatens to undermine Barack Obama's presidency. More alarmingly, the spill exacerbates the worry that this nation founded on the principle of trust now faces a crisis of faith in its public and private institutions - government and big business particularly.
Before paid cleanup crews started work, the volunteers pulled on rubber gloves and picked up the gooey mess. As they did so, Kaiser said this: "Six months from now the government will lie to us and say everything is fine."
How did we get to this point where people EXPECT their government to lie to them? And what does it say about where we're headed?
Less than two years removed from an election victory built on his promise to fix Washington's broken institutions, Obama now seems a captive of them. His administration's regulators cozied up to the oil industry before the spill and moved slowly afterward to seize control. The president himself often seemed detached.
Who else dropped the ball?
-BP and its chief executive, Tony Hayward. As his company's oil filled up the Gulf, he had the audacity to complain that "I'd like my life back."
-The Minerals Management Service, the regulatory agency that failed to clean up its act despite Obama's promise during the campaign to end the "cozy relationship" between the oil industry and federal regulators.
-Even the Coast Guard - the one agency that survived Katrina with its image enhanced - is now being criticized for its lack of transparency and command.
And the public stews. Listen to Billy Nugesser, president of the coastal Plaquemines Parish: "We are dying a slow death here."
The public's unconditional faith in national institutions is dying, too.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/07/v-print/1667390/ap-essay-govt-fails-latest-test.html
There is a lot of blame to go around. And the folks calling for a moratorium on all drilling and mining, because it is dangerous, doesn't have the sense God gave a goose. More people are killed driving, so by the above logic, we should a moratrorium on driving, because it is dangerous. We gotta get a grip on reality here, we need to drive or we just go back to horses, which I ride all the time, and we need energy or we go back to aaahhh, horse again.
And it used to be innocent until rpoven guilty, but this thuggish regime is already place blame and guilt, well he'd better look at his own people also and since he called for the firing on BP's CEO, maybe BO had better step down also, because the last I looked the Coast Guard and Minerals Management Service are part of "his Company"
Oh yeah, don't drive a GM or the windshield wiper fluid may burst into flames, fire the CEO, oh yeah that's BO again since the Gov't owns 62% of Government Motors. That was part of paying off the loan that GM so proudly announced. Heck folks all they did was dump that and the pension on the American people.
The recall of GM cars doesn't bother me, because that will continue to be a way of life, recallls. But when did we became such a nation of whiners and crybabies, until Uncle Sugar comes in to wipe our noses?
I'm pretty disgusted. The Government needs to get outta our lifes and quit telling us what to do and how to live.
