Don't know why that is, but it is true. When I came in to Civil Service I came into a ladder position that was set up as a 7/9/11. No 8 or 10 in there. I think it just depends on how the position description (PD) was originally written and classified. Each PD has a specific format with knowledge, skills abilities, scope of work, contacts, supervisory controls, etc. Each position series (or code) has a classification guide, sometimes multiple guides, that are used to grade the PD. Just depends on how the PD grades out.
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New to Civil Service need advice on a situation
- Thread starter The Peake
- Start date
Wrngway
Member
I've wondered about this as well. In contracting people generally start at a GS-7 or 9. After that the next level is GS-11, then 12, 13, 14. I suppose the increase in related responsibilities and tasks merits it.
We're supposed to be going to the Performance Based system at my office...eventually. That will prove to be a whole 'nuther ball game.
That is the site I saw and I stumbled across "The Grade Conversion Table" in "The Primary Standard". It looks like it grades the job using different points for different factors. Why can't certain job codes, ie the 0346 I want to go into, have a position that has points total enough to equal a GS-10 (2105-2350)? How can it skip this grade completely is more of my question. Maybe I need to read more, but I was looking for an easy answer.
In my experience GS-10 is an unusual grade. As previously mentioned by others, the progression is usually GS-5/7/9/11 in a ladder series. This was true at Defense Logistics Agency. They had a lot of 346s.
Consequently, if you qualify for a GS-9, they can get you to your current pay rate, or a little better, by giving you the appropriate step, e.g. step 5.
The numeric value is associated with the job. Certain point values justify certain grade levels. It's the supervisor's responsibility to justify the point values. As an applicant, it's not really your problem. If they want YOU and you can't qualify at the GS-11 level, they'll announce the job at the GS-9 and match your GS-10/1 salary with the appropriate step.
Consequently, if you qualify for a GS-9, they can get you to your current pay rate, or a little better, by giving you the appropriate step, e.g. step 5.
The numeric value is associated with the job. Certain point values justify certain grade levels. It's the supervisor's responsibility to justify the point values. As an applicant, it's not really your problem. If they want YOU and you can't qualify at the GS-11 level, they'll announce the job at the GS-9 and match your GS-10/1 salary with the appropriate step.
So another related question, let's say I take a GS-9 position one of the job codes that doesn't offer a GS-10 level and I want to transfer to another job that does not have the GS-10 level. Does my one year as a GS-9 count as the time in grade to move to the GS-11 position since there is no GS-10 in that job code?
I am not trying to be hard headed about this, but if I have to wait 1 year to move to the next grade how do these missing grades factor into everything?
I am not trying to be hard headed about this, but if I have to wait 1 year to move to the next grade how do these missing grades factor into everything?
Yes. In addition, not all ladder positions require a year in grade. Some only require six months.
Therefore, you could go from GS-9 to GS-11 in six months.
If you are offered the position, you need to raise these questions. You've been operating at the GS-10 level. Therefore, they may accelerate your promotion to GS-11. Unfortunately, they can't just 'give' you the promotion. Finally, you probably don't want to take a GS-9 with no promotion potential.
Therefore, you could go from GS-9 to GS-11 in six months.
If you are offered the position, you need to raise these questions. You've been operating at the GS-10 level. Therefore, they may accelerate your promotion to GS-11. Unfortunately, they can't just 'give' you the promotion. Finally, you probably don't want to take a GS-9 with no promotion potential.
Agreed.
Another alternative is to look for opportunities to compete for positions that are announced to those outside the Federal system. If your work qualifies you at a higher grade, postings that are made outside the system are a way to get around the time in grade issue.
Are you talking about the e-mails about internal solictations for vacncies I get? I only get the internal e-mails for jobs with this agency which is not the direction I want to go. What does outside the Federal System mean? My expertise is really only with the Navy, so I don't have other options as far as state or local governments.
I know I keep coming back to the direction I want my career to go because I think it will be easier to move now at a lower level than to change after I get higher. Not sure if there is any truth to that, but I think the higher I get the specialized I will get and after awhile I will be stuck.
Also I know I will have to compete for the job, but I spent a few years as a contractor and saw how some jobs were written so only one person in the world could compete for it. Maybe that is why my boss wants to know everything I do. If they really want me for this brand new job, I am sure they could find a way to make it happen.
How do I find out what the minimum time in rank is? I don't think I have ever seen it on a job announcement. Thanks again for all the helpful advice everyone has given me.
ChemEng may mean "excepted service". It's federal. However, it doesn't follow all of the Civil Service rules and pay scales. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) is an example.
If the chain of command is on-board. Getting them on-board may be why your boss wanted you to accompany the Commander to the meeting. Alternately, it may not mean anything.:laugh:
If it's announced, call Personnel.
The DOD version of the new system is the National Security Personnel System (NSPS). http://www.cpms.osd.mil/nsps/ Pay bands, pay pools, competition for pay increases, and rigorous performance appraisals. It is being phased into DOD. My brother-in-law works for the Navy (NAVAIR or NAVSEA) and his organization has been spiraled in already.
However, it appears that your organization is still under the pre-NSPS system, i.e. old Civil Service rules.
However, it appears that your organization is still under the pre-NSPS system, i.e. old Civil Service rules.
So now that we have mixed all the apples and oranges together, what applies to me? I know all the jobs I apply for have an eligibility section. Here is what it says:
Current Permanent Federal Civilian Employee You are eligible for this hiring category if you are a current, permanent competitive service civilian employee of any Federal agency.
Note: You may check your competitive service status by viewing your latest Notification of Personnel Action, SF-50, Block 34, Position Occupied. If you are currently working on a temporary or term appointment for the Federal Government, you are NOT eligible for this hiring category.
Block 34 on mine is checked to indicate "competitive service" which makes me eligible according to the job notice, IMHO. So I guess that means I have to play by the old school rules.
Even if this turns out to be nothing but irrational paranoia, I am learning a lot and soon my post may have the most responses in the lounge. I guess that makes me king of the lounge. Does that mean everyone buys me drinks here.
Current Permanent Federal Civilian Employee You are eligible for this hiring category if you are a current, permanent competitive service civilian employee of any Federal agency.
Note: You may check your competitive service status by viewing your latest Notification of Personnel Action, SF-50, Block 34, Position Occupied. If you are currently working on a temporary or term appointment for the Federal Government, you are NOT eligible for this hiring category.
Block 34 on mine is checked to indicate "competitive service" which makes me eligible according to the job notice, IMHO. So I guess that means I have to play by the old school rules.
Even if this turns out to be nothing but irrational paranoia, I am learning a lot and soon my post may have the most responses in the lounge. I guess that makes me king of the lounge. Does that mean everyone buys me drinks here.
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Actually Im thinking something different (although what you are talking about is true.) Not all job announcements are open for non-federal employees. These announcements are generally posted twice on USAjobs--1 time for Federal employees, and 1 time for non-Federal employees. Now, if you are currently a Federal employee and you apply for the "Federal employee" version of the announcement, then the OPM rules apply--time in grade and the like.
BUT if you are a Federal employee and you apply for the "non-Federal employee" version of the announcement, then different OPM rules apply because you are competing for placement on the list against people who arent federal employees. This way lets you compete for placement on the list on the basis of your credentials *alone* without consideration of some of the OPM requirements--like time in grade.
To be safe, always apply for both versions of the announcements if there are 2. There is no penalty for making both lists.
I hope this is clear...
Update...
My supervisor got back from his trip. I decided not to beat around the bush and asked him he knew anything about the position. He mentioned that they might be looking for a GS-12, but it is not "our side of the house." The position has not be finalized, so there is no announcement yet. If I am being earmarked for the position it is happening above his level because he seemed pretty clueless about the position.
So maybe it was just paranoia on my part or maybe it is coming from higher up. Either way, as slow as the government seems to move at creating new positions, I would be eligible for a GS 11/12 in August and I am guessing it will take that long for them to fill the position. I will just wait and see what happens.
My supervisor got back from his trip. I decided not to beat around the bush and asked him he knew anything about the position. He mentioned that they might be looking for a GS-12, but it is not "our side of the house." The position has not be finalized, so there is no announcement yet. If I am being earmarked for the position it is happening above his level because he seemed pretty clueless about the position.
So maybe it was just paranoia on my part or maybe it is coming from higher up. Either way, as slow as the government seems to move at creating new positions, I would be eligible for a GS 11/12 in August and I am guessing it will take that long for them to fill the position. I will just wait and see what happens.
On this episode of "As The Peake Turns"
Well my supervisor is out of town on another business trip. He called yesterday and told me that he was selected for another job (different agency). He doesn't know if he will take it, but it is something he is looking into. I guess it is another 12 position, but this one is not a supervisor position which is what he wants. I have no idea why he is telling me this, but none-the-less he did. So if he were to leave for this job, none of the older people want his job. They all have the attitude that they are only here to finish out their last of their working years and they don't want to change anything. I think I would be high on the list of candidates, but I really don't want to be a supervisor again (I was back in my Navy days and it really sucked). So I guess I will just wait and see if he takes the job, but it is getting interesting.
Also I think I somewhat know why he wanted me to write up what I do. Before he left he had to type up a "work order" or something like that. Not sure what that is, but I think that is the reason he wanted me to do that writeup. Does anyone know what this could be?
Well my supervisor is out of town on another business trip. He called yesterday and told me that he was selected for another job (different agency). He doesn't know if he will take it, but it is something he is looking into. I guess it is another 12 position, but this one is not a supervisor position which is what he wants. I have no idea why he is telling me this, but none-the-less he did. So if he were to leave for this job, none of the older people want his job. They all have the attitude that they are only here to finish out their last of their working years and they don't want to change anything. I think I would be high on the list of candidates, but I really don't want to be a supervisor again (I was back in my Navy days and it really sucked). So I guess I will just wait and see if he takes the job, but it is getting interesting.
Also I think I somewhat know why he wanted me to write up what I do. Before he left he had to type up a "work order" or something like that. Not sure what that is, but I think that is the reason he wanted me to do that writeup. Does anyone know what this could be?
James48843
Well-known member
Hmmmmm....
Sounds a lot to me liek someone may be getting ready to outsource your job. The boss knows is, and so he is getting ready to bail out to another federal job. But in order to bid it out, they have to know what the duties are so they can write a contract bid order.
What is it you do? Are you "inherently governmental", or a good candidate to contract out to the lowest bidder?
Just curious. It could be nothing. Or it could be that in a few months your job will be done by a privatized Lockheed Martin employee...
Sounds a lot to me liek someone may be getting ready to outsource your job. The boss knows is, and so he is getting ready to bail out to another federal job. But in order to bid it out, they have to know what the duties are so they can write a contract bid order.
What is it you do? Are you "inherently governmental", or a good candidate to contract out to the lowest bidder?
Just curious. It could be nothing. Or it could be that in a few months your job will be done by a privatized Lockheed Martin employee...
