How does a TSP account grow?

questions

First Allocation
Reaction score
1
Hi TSP Forums!

I'm a new federal employee with a question about the TSP that I can't find an answer about - I think I'm overlooking something.


Can someone explain to me how compounding gains are made in the TSP account?


I don't understand - if the value of one's TSP account is just the share price of the fund x number of shares owed - how one makes compounding gains?


Does TSP pay dividends in some form?


I'm likely to leave federal service in the next year or so. How exactly will my account continue to grow, if I leave funds in TSP?


Thanks!
 
The account grows or diminishes by the value of the shares you hold as they rise and fall.

I don't think you can consider what happens as "compounding" as one would in a savings account, as savings accounts earn compounded interest either daily or monthly. Stocks don't earn interest as such, but either gain or lose value. The closest one might come to something similar is one who only holds the G fund, never IFT's, and gains only whatever the bond yield for the G fund is. This works most like a savings account, but still no compounding as such. Maybe someone else can offer a more definitive or comprehensive explanation of balance growth or decline of TSP accounts.

The following article goes into some depth regarding dividend reinvestment. Disappearing Dividends - Pay & Benefits Watch - Pay & Benefits - GovExec.com
 
Questions...

First of all your TSP account is functionally a 401(k). The managers of TSP elected to provide four index funds for us to use and one money market type of investment. The 'G Fund' can be seen as cash or a money market - but, it really is Social Security bonds. The 'F Fund' is effectively a bond index fund. The 'C Fund' is an S&P500 index fund. The 'I Fund' is the European/Japanese equivalent of the S&P500. The 'S Fund' is the remaining equities excepting those in the S&P500. Finally, the L Funds are predetermined mixes (allocations) of the five main funds.

As a 401(k), your TSP account can be rolled into a new employers 401(k) when you leave gubmint service. It can also be rolled into a Traditional IRA. You cannot do either while holding your current position. As a 401(k) you can continue to hold the assets in this account after you separate. It is generally not a good idea to do so, but you could. The very low expenses in TSP might be a decent reason to do so...

So, how do your TSP account assets compound? The exact same way an S&P500 index fund compounds (as an example). The three equities funds (C/S/I) DO NOT have anything like a guaranteed rate of return - but they do have normal long term returns. Let us assume that you are 100% in the 'C Fund'. The average annual return is about 10% (but it was a rather depressing -37% in 2008 - so see how wonderful averages are:p). If you buy 50 shares for (through contributions and match) $1,000 in January 2013 at $20 a share and it goes up 1% over the month your account is worth $1,010 at the end of January. Your share price is $20.20. Now, a 1% increase/share happening in February results in a dime of compounding (those assets are now worth $1,020.10 rather than $1,020). See the wealth building advantage - yuk, yuk. But, with bigger numbers - and especially more time - the compounding is more important than the balance. We oldsters know this. It is a joy to behold.

Finally, I was like you. I got my first position working with the USMC during a recession. I thought I hated the Military Industrial Complex. I was wearing a nice brand of Burlap Sack and Birkenstocks right out of college (sort of) and figured I would be outbound soon. Learned to love it so here I still am. The biggest recommendation I can give you is to forget about the pension portion of your retirement package. The pension will be a minimal (maybe 20% of your retirement package) and can be seen as a baseline. Your pension will not be with you if you leave gubmint service before 20 years or whatever. I didn't even know about it and always (well, that is kinda wishful thinking because I was an idiot for my first six years or so) contributed AT LEAST 10% of my gross salary to TSP. That meant that 15% of my gross salary went to my retirement account - and I had it in the 'C Fund' and forgot about it. Yummy. And, because of tax reasons that 10% contribution doesn't take 10% out of your take home pay. It takes less!!! Yummy, yummy... Finally, had I started contributing into the C/S/I when I started I would be able to stop contributing now and still have a multi-Winnebago, multi-Boat, multi-condo retirement.

Time is your best friend. Remember me in my dottage. I won't be chowing on dog food (Alpo Meal Deal Retirement Fund), but I won't be as well off as Your Lordship if you start early and heavy(ish). I so envy you!!! I might vote to move some of your savings to buy me some fine booze.:nuts:

Happy Hunting;)
 
Hey Skypilot & Bogie!

Thanks for the answers - I really appreciate the details and your time. Forgive me for perhaps being a bit slow to comprehend, but given your responses:

is it accurate that the value of the account is simply (# shares at the time I quit) x (share price)?

So essentially, value comes from the value of the fund itself increasing? Thus making my share of it worth more?

Makes sense (assuming I'm following correctly). I suppose, however, that since it's share-based, it sort of sucks that an individual couldn't sell shares and go to cash, hoping to buy in at a lower price. As one could with common stocks. Further, seems unfortunate that there's no divided/return of any sort of that could be earned and reinvested to generate the ability to purchase more shares even after I'm out of government.

Thoughts? Thanks!
 
Q: Is it accurate that the value of the account is simply (# shares at the time I quit) x (share price)?

A: Yes and no... the equation is correct, but has nothing to do with when you quit (that is to say, your account is not tied to your employment and it continues after you leave service, along with your access and ability to IFT, etc.) However, you cannot add to it by deposit, and I do not think you can borrow from it but only withdraw.

Also, shares are just an expression of the account value related to how much you have in each fund. Long ago, we did not have "share" prices, only fund values, and one simply calculated the value of one's account based upon the rise and fall of the fund. We received quarterly paper statements, and had to call the "Thriftline" to get actual daily updates on our account balance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan



I never look at shares prices as they have no relevance. Probably because we did not have share price expressions for much of my early years of TSP participation.
 
Last edited:
I suppose, however, that since it's share-based, it sort of sucks that an individual couldn't sell shares and go to cash, hoping to buy in at a lower price. As one could with common stocks.


Many of us here are market timers of some sort. It can be difficult with the transfer limits of the TSP (only 2 trades per month - so ambiguous), but it can still be done. You can consider the G Fund to be the cash fund. It has the worst return, but is always positive. If the equity funds are taking a down-turn you could sell and move your funds to cash by making an interfund transfer to the G Fund. Then when the equity funds (C,S, & I) rebound you could potentially buy them again at a lower price.
 
I suppose, however, that since it's share-based

Actually, not "share based" but rather "share expressed", much like a credit union I had an account with referred to my balance of dollars as "shares" ($1 dollar per share). To wit, you do not purchase "shares" when you contribute or IFT, but purchase and allocate by percentage.

The pie chart represents percentage slices of distribution, not shares owned. If one removed the "share" expression from TSP (as it used to be) nothing would change.

"Share" terminology is extraneous and periferal and should not be confused with real world market definitions.

I think TSP has confused this as badly as when FERS uses the term "Annuity" to describe our Pension i.e., annuities are purchased unlike pensions which are earned.
 
Here's the old TSP fact sheet on "Your Shares in
the TSP Funds" Found it on the Way Back Machine!

http://web.archive.org/web/20041015102518/http://www.tsp.gov/forms/oc03-11.pdf

This is the last iteration of the old website format that allows you to access the old archives of TSP publications and docs, some clear back to 1988 http://web.archive.org/web/20100527103914/http://www.tsp.gov/forms/highlights/archive/high88bw.pdf.

The current updated site seems to limit you to only 2009 and more recent.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top