Furlough Thread

[WorkFE]

oh, I guess he could surrender, capitulate, acquiesce to the fiscal terrorists -- or whatever you want to call it.

Or the republicans could surrender, capitulate, acquiesce to the socialist agenda -- or whatever you want to call it. See how it works. You throw a stone they throw a stone they all retreat behind their agenda. Nothing gets done.

 

[clester]

Austerity in US begins.

It will be interesting to see the publics reaction. Especially those government workers that will be effected. This is different that previous threats of furloughs. I think this will stick. Agencies will eventually adjust down, cut services etc.

Will we have riots like in Greece? Doesn't seem like enough folks are feeling the pain yet for that.

How about some anecdotal evidence from folks out there. What are your collegues feeling?

 

[Boghie]

Taxes have already been raised on both the Top 1% and the rest of us.

Now, I want to see real spending cuts. Nothing has been cut yet. And, the cuts are being backroom dealed to cause the most outcry. You cannot tell me that a 4% cut to DoD spending in FY2013 maps to carriers being scuttled, every contractor heading off on the A-Train, and all us civilian slugs taking a 20% pay cut. Gross mismanagement could be the cause. Maybe the DoD big spenders elected to spend lots of mullah early in the year - and then play the Washington Monument game if they actually had to take spending cuts. A big enough outcry and the DoD DeadEnders could blissfully play their part in the annual $1T+ deficit!!!

Then again, we are spending almost half a Trillion on debt servicing...

Look at that Social Security disbursement...

This is called a cash flow crunch...

 

[Khotso]

Or the republicans could surrender, capitulate, acquiesce to the socialist agenda -- or whatever you want to call it. See how it works. You throw a stone they throw a stone they all retreat behind their agenda. Nothing gets done.

The point is:
(1) personal taxes are at an all time low as a result of 30+years of Republican sponsored trickle-down fiscal policy.
(2) Unemployment is at record highs outside the Great Depression.
(3) Working class wages have stagnated for 30+ years despite rising costs for virtually every necessity over that same time frame.
(4) At the same time, profits on Wall Street has exploded -- just look at the long term charts.
(5) America's overall wealth continues to get concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer. In 2010, the top 1% held 42% of the nation's wealth, the top 5% held 72%, and the top 20% held 95%, the remaining 80% enjoy just 5% of the nation's overall wealth, and worse, the lowest 40% held only 0.3% -- and the upward concentration of wealth continues.
(6) Deficits are declining -- aside from year one, the annual federal deficit has declined significantly during the Obama administration -- and the TARP made up most of the deficit in the first year.
(7) Austerity hasn't worked to grow economies and create more, higher paying jobs in Japan and it isn't working in Europe. I'm not sure that it has worked anywhere ever -- but I haven't researched it.
(8) Defense spending is at the highest levels ever.
(9) Obama has offered to make changes in Medicare and Social Security much to the chagrin of his base.

Those are the facts.

So WHO is holding WHO hostage WorkFE ... and for what purpose? In my view, the far right ... and basically to disable the federal government. If you want chaos, do that. Let's see how well States get along when fiscal policy is made at the State level.

The current wealth distribution in America is not sustainable. Social unrest is one of the reasons we have an unprecedented number of "preppers" today. Too bad many of those folks have drunk the Reagan Kool-Aid and see the federal government as the problem as opposed to a vital player in obtaining a sustainable future at the national level.

In the end, things will work out. People are waking up. Ergo, the Rs grow increasingly desperate, taking increasingly desperate measures. But in a democracy, people are the government ... so the Rs will eventually change tack and chart a course that is more sustainable. It won't be capitulation or surrender on their part though, it will be survival -- just a matter of practicality really.

 

[Boghie]

Austerity in US begins.

It will be interesting to see the publics reaction. Especially those government workers that will be effected. This is different that previous threats of furloughs. I think this will stick. Agencies will eventually adjust down, cut services etc.

Will we have riots like in Greece? Doesn't seem like enough folks are feeling the pain yet for that.

How about some anecdotal evidence from folks out there. What are your collegues feeling?

Clester,

No riots will ensue. Our spending increased 30%+ in 2009. Do you feel the benefit of that spending as a taxpayer? I cannot even tell as a gubmint worker. Sure, we hired some fat bodies and a couple of good people, but really... Were any of us taxed 30% higher to cover the spending? Did the spending grow the tax base economy by 30%? Is it likely to? Why are we spending that Trillion annually? Just asking...

This time I think the general public will watch the frowny faces of the children as they are not allowed into the Washington Monument. Those children walked all the way from San Diego and Seattle to take the elevator ride to the top. And, the 2% cut in spending sends them back with nuthin'. Absolutely nuthin. Let me take another bite out of the Alpo can - get out of the way Burrocrat, I'll fight for this man. Kill:nuts:. But, the TV watcher will ask what pot holes have we filled? Why is our children so dum? Why can't I spell ether? No riots because they will let this thing shake out.

Too bad we didn't make the hard choices five years ago. As anyone with any fiscal and/or investment knowledge knows financial problems are much harder to solve without the benefit of time. Anyone watching the interest rates on our G Fund lately. Times running out...

 

[burrocrat]

Austerity in US begins.

It will be interesting to see the publics reaction. Especially those government workers that will be effected. This is different that previous threats of furloughs. I think this will stick. Agencies will eventually adjust down, cut services etc.

Will we have riots like in Greece? Doesn't seem like enough folks are feeling the pain yet for that.

How about some anecdotal evidence from folks out there. What are your collegues feeling?

for the most part my colleagues are taking it in stride, planning what to do on their days off, which three day weekends would be best to take a furlough before or after, how to trim the entertainment budget and bring leftovers, etc.

hardworking folks will just tighten up a bit and find a way to keep on going because that's what hardworking folks do. i don't think we'll start to see the riots until the people who aren't working get their takehome cut.

 

[nnuut]

And continued hostage taking by the Tea/Republican Party House. Actually, I don't know what the POTUS can do in this circumstance -- oh, I guess he could surrender, capitulate, acquiesce to the fiscal terrorists -- or whatever you want to call it.

He could have changed where the cuts came from, cut waste, cut useless duplicated programs, consolidate government, but NO he just wanted to make the Republicans bad. I think now he will save the day and do exactly what the other side wanted, YES we will fix this calamity generated by the right. CROOKS, LIERS!

 

[Boghie]

Khotso...

Personal Income tax revenues for FY2012 were $1.132 Trillion
The FY2012 deficit was $1.089 Trillion

We have to increase everyone's income taxes by 100% to balance the budget.

But, we are spending $800 Billion more than FY2007. That is $500 Billion more inflation adjusted.
And, we our revenue is still $120 Billion less, but growing.

Why are we spending a half Trillion more than we did five years ago (inflation adjusted)? Why can't we have productivity gains to compensate for 2% inflation? Do you feel that we are getting anything for annual spending 18% higher after inflation? What do you think the general public thinks about a 20% pure spending increase? Do you think they will believe that every spending increase is sacred?

 

[Boghie]

He could have changed where the cuts came from, cut waste, cut useless duplicated programs, consolidate government, but NO he just wanted to make the Republicans bad. I think now he will save the day and do exactly what the other side wanted, YES we will fix this calamity generated by the right. CROOKS, LIERS!

NNuut,

That game might be over. Look at the fact that we are now spending $440 Billion on interest payments. Too late to promise cutting waste and stuff. Look at Frixxxx's thread on the 'G Fund' interest rates. Goin' up, baby, goin up!!! When even Social Security demands higher interest rates than we only have a little time before everyone does. And, then the Fed will be swamped. The fun is just starting...

 

[burrocrat]

let's not forget who signed the order to begin sequestration on march 1st. if it goes bad of course we all know who's fault it is. but in a few months when things worked out ok i bet i know who will be first in line to take credit for it.

let's not be so hard on the politicians. they couldn't stop it and really had no choice. he who has the gold makes the rules, and we are in debt to our eyeballs so they're just along for the ride like the rest of us.

 

[WorkFE]

My reply did its intended job. Identified another individual who loves compromise as long as you agree with them. Thanks

 

[OBGibby]

View attachment 22703

Complete and utter BS. Just more typical class warfare nonsense by Barry and his ilk and the union mouthpieces of the Democratic Party.

The Democrats have had ample opportunity to come to the table and work in an honest fashion toward compromise with the GOP. Yet, time and again the Democrats have pushed for tax increases, increased spending now, and the promise of spending cuts down the road. And each time the Democrats never upheld their end of the bargain to reduce spending.

If they can't do it, the Republicans will.

 

[Boghie]

Back to Furlough - and not political - talk...

Remember folks... You might be dropped a tax bracket. the end result is that you overpaid for eight pay periods and you cannot be easily ratio'd (via a simple calculator) to pay 80% of your current Federal and State tax since you are in a lower tax bracket. If the furlough lasts the remainder of the year my family income never touches the 25% bracket - especially if I keep my 401(k) contributions up. That seems to wipe out another $40/pay-period off the 80% ratio of Federal taxes. I can expect another $10 in savings from State as well. And, any of you giving the Gubmint an interest free loan (those of you getting large tax refunds) can math that out and take it out of your Federal and State taxes.

What you pay in taxes can be managed to some extent. Right now the easily categorized taxes consume more of my income than any other expense I have - by far. That makes them something to look at. Not going to jail by doing the "American Greed" thang on taxes, but now am going to manage them.

Also, if you end up (after managing your taxes) in the 15% bracket - and you still have cash flow - look at funding a Roth (whether Roth TSP or Roth IRA). It is very likely that you were worth the money they paid you pre-Sequestration so this cut will be a blip. Maybe the politicians can manage the cuts better, maybe the agencies can manage the cuts better, maybe revenue will increase, whatever... Maybe you will quit the Gubmint and get a full pay job in the private sector, whatever... Regardless, think of this as an opportunity to invest in a Roth account at the 15% tax level. It could very well be the only time you can. The benefits of Roth investing rapidly decline at the 25% level onward...

 

[Khotso]

My reply did its intended job. Identified another individual who loves compromise as long as you agree with them. Thanks

As did mine. You guys got nothing, other than blame and name calling.

But as Boghie said, back to what this thread is supposed to be about -- furlough.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

Honest question for those affected by the furlough and saying it will be a 20% pay cut.

Here is my math:

22 furlough days without pay out of 260 paid work days (52 x 5, assuming you get paid for holidays - salary right?)

(260-22)/260 * 100 = 91.5% or an 8.5% cut, not 20%

What am I missing?

Also, lower pay means lower taxes (maybe due to a bracket shift down too) which means the net cut may be less than 8.5%

Thanks for helping!!

 

[Boghie]

Honest question for those affected by the furlough and saying it will be a 20% pay cut.

Here is my math:

22 furlough days without pay out of 260 paid work days (52 x 5, assuming you get paid for holidays - salary right?)

(260-22)/260 * 100 = 91.5% or an 8.5% cut, not 20%

What am I missing?

Also, lower pay means lower taxes (maybe due to a bracket shift down too) which means the net cut may be less than 8.5%

Thanks for helping!!

RMI...

Things that will make the furlough less than a 20% cut:

• Changes in your Tax Bracket (Federal and State)
• Your Social Security contribution, actually a tax now
• 401(k) contributions - if you keep the same percentage
• Your FERS pension contribution, the Alpo Meal Deal baseline
• Your Life Insurance benefits - I think. I think they are a percentage

Things that will make your furlough greater than a 20% cut:

• Your medical insurance
• Your CFC charitable contribution
• Your Flexible Savings Account contribution
• Any TSP loans or loan allotments that cannot adjust
• Your TSP contribution if you elected a specific amount contribution

This is going to be very hard to work out. And, if you blow the tax stuff you can be fined for underpayment and get stuck with a large expense on April 15th. On that topic, taxes for CY2013 are going to be extremely complicated and extremely variant. This is going to be a very stupid year.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

RMI...

Things that will make the furlough less than a 20% cut:

• Changes in your Tax Bracket (Federal and State)
• Your Social Security contribution, actually a tax now
• 401(k) contributions - if you keep the same percentage
• Your FERS pension contribution, the Alpo Meal Deal baseline
• Your Life Insurance benefits - I think. I think they are a percentage

Things that will make your furlough greater than a 20% cut:

• Your medical insurance
• Your CFC charitable contribution
• Your Flexible Savings Account contribution
• Any TSP loans or loan allotments that cannot adjust
• Your TSP contribution if you elected a specific amount contribution

This is going to be very hard to work out. And, if you blow the tax stuff you can be fined for underpayment and get stuck with a large expense on April 15th. On that topic, taxes for CY2013 are going to be extremely complicated and extremely variant. This is going to be a very stupid year.

I understand your lists, but assuming you make no other changes (trying to be apples to apples), then how is the furlough a 20% cut in pay?

 

[law87]

Re: Furlough Thread (HURL ALERT !)

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner - worst post of the day!

Not that i care for your comments, but my reason for what I said is because things are not being done @ washington, there are too many peoples that are in it because they think their right, in the end nothing agree. Prime example spending cuts then people turn around and blame Obama for something he's not fully in control of.

 

[burrocrat]

all this planning and manuevering trying to avoid the taxman and stay ahead of our creditors is hard work and making my head hurt. my whole life i've never got ahead, whether i make 25 or 50, it's always not quite enough. i'm tired of these fiscal treadmill games. it's all just consume consume consume but never fulfilled.

i think i'm going to step off the ride for a bit. give away all my worldly possessions. devote my time to a life of pious frugality. spend my days inside a cloister of nuns or something. not all at once, that would be selfish. just one at a time for me please.

 

[Boghie]

I understand your lists, but assuming you make no other changes (trying to be apples to apples), then how is the furlough a 20% cut in pay?

RMI...

If the cut was budgeted for the full year it would be the 9% cut. But, because many of the agencies continued spending as if it wasn't going to happen over the first half of the year then the cuts are to be budgeted over six months rather than twelve.

There are some of us who will see no sequester. Why? Because their agencies budgeted the sequester from the initiation of their fiscal year onward. Also, I think you will find that those agencies are better run, have fewer people, and didn't hire as much fat during the 'Time of the Credit Card' as the rest.

My guess is that those of us facing a sequester are in agencies who have no real budget process, really haven't automated their processes, and had poor leadership who hired lots of fat during the Sizzlin' Times. Another major reason for the Sequester Hollering is that these agencies do not want to accept the budget cuts coming their way. Normal full throated gubmint hollering. Sing 'Every Penny is Sacred' to Monty Python's 'Every Sperm is Sacred' and you get the idea.

Finally, just watch Social Security and Medicare spending. They are no longer funding the sizzle. They want their chunk of fat now. And, our politicians have be spending their borrowed money on groceries and vacations. Our tax base is nearly triple that of 1980 - but, bro, we ain't got a dime. The return on those investments has been consumed by day to day spending; leaving nuthin for the bond holders (Social Security). Soon enough we will have an episode on "American Greed" all about it...