Food Stamps, and Nothing Else -NYT

phil said:
I guess we federal employees should all count ourselves lucky that we don't have to depend on food stamps. However, other people do. I think it's probably not by many people's choice, but out of necessity.

Here's what I don't understand here: Why do so many people believe that people are poor by choice?

In talking to the poor and homeless, I discover that most people don't actually choose to be poor or homeless. Really, they don't.
Click to expand...

Because I know them and was in the room or area when they network with each other on how to "game" the system.

People that work just enough months to go back on unemployment. People that divorce to increase benefits to the wife and kids with the husband still life at home, not working or looking.

People that claim mental or alcohol related SS disability so they do not have to work.

People that take the food assistance and buy all steaks so they can sell them for cash and buy drugs, cigarettes, and booze. They then go to the food pantries to get more freebies to eat on.

You need to hang with a different class of people to see it or hear about it.;) They don't tell everyone what they are doing and they try to not make it obvious. That is why you see them in this area at 2:00 a.m. doing the buying with a cart FULL of nothing but steaks.

Granted now is different, there are a lot of honest people using the benefit, but in good times the dishonest dominated the system. My biggest point to the food assistance is they should not be allowed to buy steak. Any ground meat will sustain their protein needs. They should only be allowed to buy ground meats and store brand milk, cereals, vegetables, and fruit. Keep it simple and eliminate the fraud. Works for WIC.
 
I suppose it's just not as easy for me to judge, as it is for you.

I also suppose that I give the benefit of the doubt to the "some people". Ultimately, it's not to make poor people poorer, but to provide incentives for people to work.

A great example is probably Sweden. People are actually happy to work there, because there are more benefits to working than not working.
 
phil said:
In talking to the poor and homeless, I discover that most people don't actually choose to be poor or homeless. Really, they don't.
Click to expand...
Some, sure, but for many you are not asking the right question. It is not "You don't actually CHOOSE to be POOR or HOMELESS, do you?"

The segment of society that has accepted their "lot" in life to make do on what "assistance" provides and just wish someone else would change so as to enable them to have a job is growing. The media and their "leaders" convince them that it's their due.

And for many we build in incentives with the best of intentions. Picture the professional gent in a sympathetic TV story on job searching who says that he has been unable to locate a suitable position in his field/salary level and worries about when unemployment will run out, when he "will have to consider some other kind of job".

Go ask them if they are changing their attitude, appearance, skill sets, etc. so as to be able to help someone and thereby earn a job. Some will but many will think you are nuts.
 
You know me by now and yes I do know who the major contributers and supporters of NAFTA were, and it wasn't Al, he's not that smart. If you look closely Bill Clinton is under the table and it's his arm sticking into Al's back moving his head and mouth, I didn't know Bill was an accomplished ventriloquist.:cool:

History of NAFTA
NAFTA was signed by President George H.W. Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in 1992. It was ratified by the legislatures of the three countries in 1993. The House approved it by 234 to 200 on November 17 and the Senate by 60 to 38 on November 20. It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993 and entered force January 1, 1994. Although it was signed by President Bush, it was a priority of President Clinton's, and its passage is considered one of his first successes. (Source: History.com, NAFTA Signed into Law, December 8, 1993.

The impetus for NAFTA actually began with President Ronald Regan, who campaigned on a North American common market. In 1984, Congress passed the Trade and Tariff Act. This is important because it gave the President "fast-track" authority to negotiate free trade agreements, while only allowing Congress the ability to approve or disapprove, not change negotiating points. Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney agreed with Reagan to begin negotiations for the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement, which was signed in 1988, went into effect in 1989 and is now suspended due to NAFTA. [more]
http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolicy/p/NAFTA_History.htm
 
Why did most of our Manufacturing leave the Good Old USA, who is responsible?:confused:
 
I guess we federal employees should all count ourselves lucky that we don't have to depend on food stamps. However, other people do. I think it's probably not by many people's choice, but out of necessity.

Here's what I don't understand here: Why do so many people believe that people are poor by choice?

In talking to the poor and homeless, I discover that most people don't actually choose to be poor or homeless. Really, they don't.
 
wv-girl said:
I did not see any declines. And I thought the gov said things were looking up? I guess it depends on whom you are talking to. I dunno, might be kind of nice to set on my rump all day doing nuttin. NOT. I often wonder how one can look at themselves in the mirror everyday knowing they don't contribute but yet continue to take. It must take a certain mindset I don't possess. I would not like what I saw, ifin it were me. I do know there are those out there that were forced into it,(lost job,etc.) but I am speaking of the ones who feel entitled. Sad, really sad.
Click to expand...


I live in an area that went into recession in 2000, and never came out. The crash of 2007 just made things worse. Some places have real unemployment in the range of 50%. I don't know of anyone who "feels entitled". Nearly all have lost jobs over the last decade to outsourcing of manufacturing to either China or Mexico. Electrolux vacuum cleaners, for example, closed their factor here for Mexico. Many auto suppliers ceased to exist when the factory was purchased by a Chinese company, who then moved the equipment to China and left the building empty. Every day, these former workers who were paid $10 to $20 an hour, knock on doors and look for work. McDonalds isn't hiring. Nor is Wal-mart. Many have lost their homes. Some now live in the woods. Some live in cars.

Here's the food stamp list for one county I have been through- Lake County in mid-Michigan-
View attachment 7848

Many years ago, the major industry there was logging. The trees are all logged out long ago now. Some light industry was in that area- mostly tube bending, tool & die businesses, some tourism, some other light assembly of manufactured goods. Some things like auto alternator production.

All that disappeared over the last decade or so. The final straw was the crash of 2007/2008. No more manufacturing now. A little bit of tourism, but not much. One Indian Casino is now the largest employer. There really AREN'T any jobs to be had-- everything left and went to Mexico.

If you want to bring a business here, there are lots of people who would be glad for a minimum wage job. You can get a house for 10K or less. You can get free land for a business to set up.

In the meantime, lots of people hunt deer for food...and chop down a tree to build a fire to keep warm.....

I do not know a single person who feels "entitled". No one I know is "sitting on their rump all day".

They are doing what it takes to survive.

Chopping wood.

Hunting deer.

Knocking on doors.

Digging potatoes gleened out of a field.


They are not lazy.
​
 
Last edited:
burrocrat said:
I take it that no states had declines in food stamp recipient numbers?
frightening, where is the money coming from?
Click to expand...

...and then, look at the number of states that show no data received - nearly half of our 50 -
oh - wait, I forget now, how many states Do we have on rollcall in the Senate? ...I may have missed some... - or do we have double-dippers here too?
And according to some I've talked with at one of the food pantry's the food stamp givers must be cutting down, or having a more strict, and perhaps, unrealistic in some cases, criteria....
 
burrocrat said:
I take it that no states had declines in food stamp recipient numbers?

frightening, where is the money coming from?
Click to expand...


I did not see any declines. And I thought the gov said things were looking up? I guess it depends on whom you are talking to. I dunno, might be kind of nice to set on my rump all day doing nuttin. NOT. I often wonder how one can look at themselves in the mirror everyday knowing they don't contribute but yet continue to take. It must take a certain mindset I don't possess. I would not like what I saw, ifin it were me. I do know there are those out there that were forced into it,(lost job,etc.) but I am speaking of the ones who feel entitled. Sad, really sad.
 
I take it that no states had declines in food stamp recipient numbers?

frightening, where is the money coming from?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top