Do auto workers really earn $73 an hour?

[James48843]

They Can Build Them; Why Can't We?
...
When times are good, these American transplants are quite profitable--in fact, they are the greatest earning centers for Toyota and Honda. But it wasn't always this way: A while back, I recall the chief financial officer of Toyota (he later became chief executive) coming to America and telling me: "General Motors makes money manufacturing cars in the U.S. Ford makes money building cars in the U.S. I'm here to find out why we aren't making money building cars in the U.S."

Toyota solved its problems, while the Detroit automakers collapsed. One reason: the unions.

.

I disagree. So easy to blame Unions- when that simply fits your preconceived notions about how things are.

If you want to know the heart of the problem, take a look at this master's thesis from 1991, which outlined many of the issues:

http://epi.3cdn.net/30067e5f476cedcaf2_76m6bgb75.pdf

Transplant companies don't have legacy costs like retirement costs, because, first of all, they haven't been here long enough to have a significant retirement debt load- plus they fire employees routinely just before they qualify for any retirement plan.

Add to that tax breaks given by states and localities to transplant plants, outright gifts of money by units of government to bring jobs - and the overhead disappears for the transplant companies.

Add to that the business model that Ford, Chrysler and GM have now adopted- that of having suppliers build the parts at wages 40% to 60% of company employees, and then only become "final assembly" companies, yet have the legacy health care costs and pension costs from a century of being an entire production company (54,000 employees now having to shoulder the burden of 400,000 retirees, for example), and you have a really bad situation to start with.

It's easy to blame it on the Unions.

It's simply not true that it would be significantly different cost wise if Unions weren't in place. GM would STILL have significant legacy costs that Toyota and Honda don't have, simply because Toyota and Honda weren't here building cars and racking up retirement costs in the 1950s and 1960s. They were still enjoying their American foreign aid --and rebuilding brand new plants and facilities in Japan- aid given to them in large part - by the U.S. taxpayer, to recover their shattered economy after WWII.

 

[James48843]

Here you go Buster-

The Chinese are buying Hummer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_bi_ge/us_automakers

GM to sell Hummer to Chinese company

By TOM KRISHER and BREE FOWLER, AP Auto Writers Tom Krisher And Bree Fowler, Ap Auto Writers 1 hr 8 mins ago
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. took a key step toward its downsizing on Tuesday, striking a tentative deal to sell its Hummer brand to a Chinese manufacturer, while also revealing that it has potential buyers for its Saturn and Saab brands.
China's Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. said Tuesday afternoon that it reached an agreement to acquire the brand from GM for an undisclosed ammount. The Detroit automaker had announced Tuesday morning that it had a memorandum of understanding to sell the brand of rugged SUVs, but it didn't identify the buyer.
Sichuan Tengzhong deals in road construction, plastics, resins and other industrial products, but Hummer would be its first step into the automotive business.
GM said the sale will likely save more than 3,000 U.S. jobs in manufacturing, engineering and at various Hummer dealerships. Tengzhong said it will assume GM's existing agreements with Hummer dealers.
"We will be investing in the Hummer brand and its research and development capabilities, which will allow Hummer to better meet demand for new products such as more fuel-efficient vehicles in the U.S," Chief Executive Yang Yi said in a statement.
As part of the proposed transaction, Hummer will continue to contract vehicle manufacturing and business services from GM during a transitional period. For example, GM's Shreveport, La., assembly plant would continue to contract to assemble the H3 and H3T through at least 2010, GM said. AM General LLC in Mishawaka, Ind., makes the larger H2 under contract for GM.
Hummer will keep its existing management team and remain based in the United States, the companies said. Tengzhong said it expects to expand the brand's dealer network worldwide, including to China.
"GM is close to a sale of its Hummer brand, which is good news for the 3,000 Americans who will be able to keep their jobs, the two American plants that will remain open and the more than 100 Hummer dealers that should be able to stay in business all around the country," White House spokesman Bill Burton said earlier in the day.

 

[James48843]

So....you know, there was a German Company that was interested in bidding- (here comes the jokes...)

Bavarian Auto Holdings was interested in doing a joint venture with Volkswagon to buy Hummer.

The car was going to be called....(get ready for it...)


the BAH-HUM-BUG.


But now a Chinese Company - Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery - has signed a deal to buy it.

No word yet on the new name, but one source said they were considering naming the new entity after the former Chairman of the Communist Party in Vietnam- Ho Chi Mihn.

So the resulting company would be called....


HO-HUM.


(aaaahhhhhrrrgggg)

 

[Bullitt]

I disagree. So easy to blame Unions- when that simply fits your preconceived notions about how things are.

I agree. Let's not forget that management agreed to all Union grievances that became policy.

What's Wall Street know what it's like to be part in a Union? I bet they wish they had a Union after all the fraud hit the fan.

 

[McDuck]

6/9/2009
China Car Sales Jump on Gov't Stimulus
- Bloomberg

 

[James48843]

6/9/2009
China Car Sales Jump on Gov't Stimulus
- Bloomberg

And you wonder why Chinese car sales are going up?

Let me give you a hint-

Take a look at the company website ad for the model being sold on the #1 car company in China- SACI Motors-




Heck, you don't even need to see the car itself. Just the ad sells it.




And then look at GM's offering:

​

Any questions?

We're in big, big trouble.

 

[wwwtractor]

I do not see what you mean. After all, the American model comes with a swimming pool included!

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/album.php?albumid=16
A few neat looking potential car model pictures.

For more, look at the following:
http://delicious.com/wwwtractor/electricar

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

And then look at GM's offering:

Any questions?

We're in big, big trouble.

That there's a portable swimmin hole! Does the confederate flag come standard, or is it an option?

 

[OBGibby]

I'm not sure what is more the technical marvel: the mobile "swimmin' hole" or that the property has what appears to be running water.

 

[Thunderhorse]

That there is what is called a live well. Load them shiners up boys.

Just wait til the GM ad for the CA model comes out with Pelosi sittin' up in there wearing one of them thong bikinis. Y'all ever seen a hound dog puke?:nuts:

 

[Silverbird]

If unions are so bad, why is Ford not involved in this fiasco? Hint, maybe they weren't trying to sell super HEMIs? I think GM and Chrysler's marketing gurus got a flunk on their product line - how can you have a broad line and still not have a nice smaller car? And the design and marketing departments *aren't* the union line guys.

Product line mistakes are not union mistakes.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

If unions are so bad, why is Ford not involved in this fiasco? Hint, maybe they weren't trying to sell super HEMIs? I think GM and Chrysler's marketing gurus got a flunk on their product line - how can you have a broad line and still not have a nice smaller car? And the design and marketing departments *aren't* the union line guys.

Product line mistakes are not union mistakes.

Agreed. I've ranted previously about a Chevy Cavalier that I was most unfortunate to own for a time. GM just made poor quality cars. Chrysler did the same, though I liked many of their body designs better than Ford or GM.

I'll never go back to a modern GM car, unless they give me one as my G-ride! I still want to get my hands on a 1978 Trans Am Special Edition, though!

 

[McDuck]

 

[McDuck]

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090616-19963.html

BHO's Government Motors should buy the manufacturing dies for these cars and produce them as their new 2011 model lines.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090616-19963.html

BHO's Government Motors should buy the manufacturing dies for these cars and produce them as their new 2011 model lines.

:laugh::nuts::blink::suspicious: DON'T GIVE HIM ANY IDEAS!!!

 

[OBGibby]

Interesting information about some upstart American car companies trying to break into the business while the big dogs are laid low. New technologies and new business models. Could be some interesting times ahead for the industry.



The Next Detroit

Joann Muller, 05.20.09, 06:00 PM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated June 08, 2009

Henrik Fisker is designing more than just a beautiful car.

In the gloomy basement cafeteria of New York's Jacob Javits Center, Henrik Fisker is choking down a chicken sandwich and imagining a new kind of American car company. Almost everything is outsourced--engineering, components, the electric power train, manufacturing. No messy work rules to worry about, no postretirement health care. Only design and marketing remain in-house......

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-fisker-karmas-the-next-detroit.html

 

[James48843]

Interesting information about some upstart American car companies trying to break into the business while the big dogs are laid low. New technologies and new business models. Could be some interesting times ahead for the industry.



The Next Detroit

Joann Muller, 05.20.09, 06:00 PM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated June 08, 2009

Henrik Fisker is designing more than just a beautiful car.

In the gloomy basement cafeteria of New York's Jacob Javits Center, Henrik Fisker is choking down a chicken sandwich and imagining a new kind of American car company. Almost everything is outsourced--engineering, components, the electric power train, manufacturing. No messy work rules to worry about, no postretirement health care. Only design and marketing remain in-house......

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-fisker-karmas-the-next-detroit.html

Sure- and you can buy one for only $88,000, and wait a year for delivery. Maybe. If they have a factory to produce them by then. Because so far, all they have is one display model made. And it uses a GM produced 2.0 Liter engine. The 100 MPG figure isn't really the mileage- see, it's a plug in hybred, and goes for the first 50 miles on a battery, and then uses the gasoline engine after that. He's saying that the 20 MPG on the gasoline engine, combined with the electric, gives you the equivilent of 100 MPG.

But it isn't available just yet.

$88,000, and it's not yet available. I would venture to hazard a guess, and say that the price will creep up yet again before it actually makes it to market. See, it hasn't yet been through U.S. EPA or Crash testing. That's still to come. We'll see.

I wish him luck, but that won't be the answer to the American auto market.

Yep- that ought to beat the socks off them.

 

[OBGibby]

Sure- and you can buy one for only $88,000, and wait a year for delivery. Maybe. If they have a factory to produce them by then. Because so far, all they have is one display model made. And it uses a GM produced 2.0 Liter engine. The 100 MPG figure isn't really the mileage- see, it's a plug in hybred, and goes for the first 50 miles on a battery, and then uses the gasoline engine after that. He's saying that the 20 MPG on the gasoline engine, combined with the electric, gives you the equivilent of 100 MPG.

But it isn't available just yet.

$88,000, and it's not yet available. I would venture to hazard a guess, and say that the price will creep up yet again before it actually makes it to market. See, it hasn't yet been through U.S. EPA or Crash testing. That's still to come. We'll see.

I wish him luck, but that won't be the answer to the American auto market.

Yep- that ought to beat the socks off them.

To quote Sergeant Hulka:

www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=C6cxNR9ML8k​

Maybe all of the companies (http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0608/070-automakers-tesla-aptera-smelling-opportunity.html) profiled won't be around in a few years; or maybe one of two will punch through and be productive and profitable. Time will tell. I'm all for some new ideas in auto design and production. Fisker, Tesla, Carbon Motors, Bright Automotive, and Aptera Motors are willing to take some risks. Maybe out of their successes and failures, auto manufacturing of the future will be better off.​

 

[nnuut]

that there is what is called a live well. Load them shiners up boys.

just wait til the gm ad for the ca model comes out with pelosi sittin' up in there wearing one of them thong bikinis. y'all ever seen a hound dog puke?:nuts:

lol lol!!!!

 

[James48843]

Incredible.

Now that GM and Chrysler have declared bankruptcy, and shed a large number of their dealers, in an attempt to "right size" themselves to become profitable, Congress is now on the verge of un-doing it.

There are now 221 co-sponsors in the House, for a bill to reopen all those dealerships that GM and Chrysler executives said they had to get rid of in order to become profitable.

---------------
Automobile Dealer Economic Rights Restoration Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)
HR 2743 IH
111th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 2743
To restore the economic rights of automobile dealers, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
June 8, 2009

Mr. MAFFEI (for himself, Mr. KRATOVIL, Mr. VAN HOLLEN, Mr. HOYER, Mr. MCMAHON, Ms. SUTTON, Mr. BARTLETT, Mr. HALL of New York, Mr. POSEY, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. PAULSEN, Ms. SHEA-PORTER, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr. DEFAZIO, and Mr. DAVIS of Alabama) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services (221 co-sponsors).

A BILL
To restore the economic rights of automobile dealers, and for other purposes.

• Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

• This Act may be cited as the `Automobile Dealer Economic Rights Restoration Act of 2009'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

• The Congress finds the following:

• • (1) Automobile dealers are an asset to automobile manufacturers that make it possible to serve communities and sell automobiles nationally.

• • (2) Forcing the closure of automobile dealers would have an especially devastating economic impact in rural communities, where dealers play an integral role in the community, provide essential services and serve as a critical economic engine.

• • (3) The manufacturers obtain the benefits from having a national dealer network at no material cost to the manufacturers.

• • (4) Historically, automobile dealers have had franchise agreement protections under State law.

SEC. 3. RESTORATION OF ECONOMIC RIGHTS.

• (a) In order to protect assets of the Federal Government and better assure the viability of automobile manufacturers in which the Federal Government has an ownership interest, or to which it is a lender, an automobile manufacturer in which the Federal Government has an ownership interest, or which receives loans from the Federal Government, may not deprive an automobile dealer of its economic rights and shall honor those rights as they existed, for Chrysler LLC dealers, prior to the commencement of the bankruptcy case by Chrysler LLC on April 30, 2009, and for General Motors Corp. dealers, prior to the commencement of the bankruptcy case by General Motors Corp. on June 1, 2009, including the dealer's rights to recourse under State law.

• (b) In order to preserve economic rights pursuant to subsection (a), at the request of an automobile dealer, an automobile manufacturer covered under this Act shall restore the franchise agreement between that automobile dealer and Chrysler LLC or General Motors Corp. that was in effect prior to the commencement of their respective bankruptcy cases and take assignment of such agreements.

• (c) Except as set forth herein, nothing in this Act is intended to make null and void:

• • (1) the court approved transfer of substantially all the assets of Chrysler LLC to New CarCo Acquisition LLC; or

• • (2) a transfer of substantially all the assets of General Motors Corp. that could be approved by a court after the date of introduction of this Act.

------------------------------------

What do you think about that?