Contact your Senator and Congressman - Federal employee pay and benefits

[nasa1974]

Folks these are good links to contact your congressman or senator. Let's take all the political talk over to the beltway before it gets ugly.

If you have not contacted your Senator or Congressman about the plan to reduce the federal deficit that hits federal employees pretty hard, then there is not time like the present.

Senator's contact information at:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm


House of Representatives contact information at:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/


Find your district if necessary:
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml


Tell them what you think of having a two year pay freeze and then a 5% after tax increase in what you pay for your pension. (5% after tax pay cut is what it amounts to)

 

[WorkFE]

98 here in KY, suppose to feel like 111. Dang that's hot

 

[alevin]

burro used a smilie, burro used a smilie! :laugh: Actually my point was that private-sector jobs aren't being created for many different reasons, and that the taxpayer burden is falling ever more heavily percentagewise on private sector middle and lower class who already do pay taxes. My neighbors-young married working couple-both work-lowpaid jobs, one-year old child, car borrowed from parents for reliable transportation to work and etc. responsible people, decent neighbors-still have to go to the foodbank once a month. underemployment-unlikely to be paying taxes.

whatever level of gov we have, needs to be supported broadbase-ie more private sector investment, employment needed, period. current debt and deficit draws from too-narrow base, takes from the $ available for job-creating private-sector investment, employment. The level of gov we can afford/willing to pay from that base is a whole nother questiion. I'm not going there at all.

 

[Aviator_Guy]

If you have not contacted your Senator or Congressman about the plan to reduce the federal deficit that hits federal employees pretty hard, then there is not time like the present.

Senator's contact information at:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm


House of Representatives contact information at:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/


Find your district if necessary:
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml


Tell them what you think of having a two year pay freeze and then a 5% after tax increase in what you pay for your pension. (5% after tax pay cut is what it amounts to)

Tell them what you think of changing the way that pension amounts or COLAs are calculated. They are planning to change the pension basis calculation from high-3 to high-5 annual salary. They also looking to change how COLAs are calculated which effectively reduces your benefit.

There are other things that you should have heard that they are considering which you can tell them about.

It takes just a few minutes to fill out the online form. Go do it now. Don't wait.

I know many in this group will have already done this. Educate your fellow federal employee.

Thanks for the excellent post and hotlink!!!

I recall the first time I sent a hand written letter to DC land was while stationed on the USS Enterprise (Carrier not the Spaceship… LOL)… As I recall, it was late 1979 or early 1980 when they told us our married Navy NCO’s were now eligible for food stamps due to our low pay!!! I was single at the time, but It really made me want to do something, so I drafted and sent a letter to my Senator, Congressman and also the President (Jimmy)…

I got a song and dance from my Illinois Senator / Congressman and I didn’t get one back from James, but I did get one from the Assistant Sec of Defense… LOL… Same song and dance, so I decided to find out how to register to vote via absentee…. I signed up all the guys in my F-14 Radar Shop… Then I moved to the rest of the AIMD Department… Word got out how easy it was to sign up and it spread to the other Departments on the ship… LOL… If you don’t vote, you can’t really complain, so I decided to get involved. Not really thinking about how fast something can take off… 1 voter becomes 2, 2-4 4-8, 8-16, 16 voters sign up 32 etc etc…

I see the same thing with Politics today. Last year I decided to check out this Tea Party thing here in Los Angeles… The TV media reported it was only a few hundred… I estimated it to be well over 2,000 and that’s a very conservative number… And the media was reporting they are basically nutty people who think that deficit government spending is the problem, not the solution… LOL

Just don’t ever doubt for a minute that your vote and ideas don’t count. Trust me they do!!! The last election was just a drop in the bucket…

 

[burrocrat]

I sent a hand written letter to DC land was while stationed on the USS Enterprise (Carrier not the Spaceship…

If you don’t vote, you can’t really complain, so I decided to get involved. Not really thinking about how fast something can take off… 1 voter becomes 2, 2-4 4-8, 8-16, 16 voters sign up 32 etc etc…

Duh, if it was the spaceship enterprise you could have just used your communicator. What ever happened to those old flip phones anyway?

Is that Tommy Lee in the background?

 

[Boghie]

Folks...

Here is my deal toward balancing the Federal Gubmint budget:

TAKE everything you have in my pension lock box.
TAKE IT ALL. GIVE ME NOTHING NOW AND IN THE FUTURE.

Just DO NOT make me pay more into it.

Now, that's fair!!!

 

[burrocrat]

Folks...

Here is my deal toward balancing the Federal Gubmint budget:

TAKE everything you have in my pension lock box.
TAKE IT ALL. GIVE ME NOTHING NOW AND IN THE FUTURE.

Just DO NOT make me pay more into it.

Now, that's fair!!!

why so glum chum? don't worry, they're going to re-fund all the obligations just as soon as we can borrow more money.

We don't have to worry about the national debt, we can now borrow and spend all we want, and we don't have to pay for it, as long as we all die first.

 

[Boghie]

why so glum chum? don't worry, they're going to re-fund all the obligations just as soon as we can borrow more money.

Burrocrat,

I'm not being glum at all!!!

I'll gladly give up my 'Alpo Meal Deal Unfunded Pension backed with the Full Faith and Credit of Current Politicians' to attain more cash flow. The Federal Gubmint can have everything in my pension lock box. Everything. Leave me nothing. But DO NOT force me to pay ANYTHING into it.

Then, I'll pour those additional assets into my TSP (or Roth IRA) lock box. I'll gladly and voluntarily give up my pension benefit for cash flow. Right now!!! These idiots have been 'investing' the pension portion of our retirement into the 'G Fund'. In my case, we are talking about twenty years of 'investing' in the 'G Fund'. Yuk. Double Yuk. Imagine what I could have had in my TSP account had those bozos either provided that benefit to me (in increased salary) or invested it in the appropriate 'L Fund' rather than the 'G Fund'. And, now, because they blew their cash flow over that past three years they lock it up and talk about jiggering the formulas.

I have NO faith and NO confidence in the politicians that 'invest' the assets in our pension while controlling the formulas for benefits.

Never had, never will.

GenX.

 

[clester]

You have more faith in wall street than me. Their game is rigged. You can try to outsmart them but they are worse than the politicians.And do you realize how much you need in tsp to get a decent income for life? Which may run out.

 

[Boghie]

You have more faith in wall street than me. Their game is rigged. You can try to outsmart them but they are worse than the politicians.And do you realize how much you need in tsp to get a decent income for life? Which may run out.

Clester,

It is important to note that I am a GenXer. I believe you are covered under the CSRS retirement plan. I am under the FERS plan.

I just checked EBIS and my expected pre-tax FERS pension is $2,500/month. That is $30,000/year. To me, in Kalefornea, that is not a decent income. It would cover my mortgage - if I still have one - and food. Not much else. By the way, if you calculate the numbers there is NO way there are enough assets in the pension retirement fund 'lock box' to make the above promise via a working lifetime of 5% of salary contributions and a 4.25% annualized return. Smoke and mirrors - and, just another line item in Federal expenditures.

However, I have been investing in TSP for the last 15 years and will continue to do so (or in a corporate 401(k)) for the next 15 years. With a modest return (8%) and a modest contribution and the match I can expect a pre-tax TSP annual income of $64,000/year. That is ~$5,300/month. I can live on that.

Now, if instead of promising the pension, the gubmint gives me the 5% 'contribution' as a plus up in match to TSP I will end up with about $72,000/year ($6,000/month) in income. If they provide 2.5% more in the match I will be at $68,000/year ($5,650/month).

I am more than willing to give up my pension and all the assets currently in it for this deal. And I know I lose. Oh well.

But, I also know that kleptocratic politicians have NO control over my benefits.

I trust wall street far more than these goobers.

None, zip, nada.

 

[Boghie]

Clester,

I've reread my above post and it probably sounds way too harsh for my intended comment. It still has value for those of us on FERS, and I do not believe in striking out or deleting posts on the web so I will keep it in place.

My basic point is that we are comparing apples to oranges when we compare those under the CSRS plan with those under the FERS plan. CSRS is a very good - and very fair - plan for those on it. I believe that the Federal Government contributed far more than 5% of gross toward the plan out of each paycheck. It was, in fact, part of your salary. James could come up with the contribution ratio for CSRS employees. If politicians try to clawback benefits for those who signed a dotted line accepting less pay for greater benefits than expect me (and James!!!) to be in the picket line.

However, I am on FERS. Also, because if massive ignorance, I invested in FERS TSP as if there were NO other elements in the retirement plan. I also got a big tax kick in the head when Clinton jacked my taxes skyward literally the same pay period I jumped two pay grades - an experience that led to understanding the tax benefits, the investment benefits, and the retirement benefits of a 401(k) (TSP). I have been running between 10% and 15% contributions since then (not including the match). Investment life has been nice. Yes, Amoeba, life has been quite nice living in the land of the big plutocratic investment bankers.

Anyway, a TSP investor can easily beat the returns and risk of a FERS pensioner.

If my benefits remain, I should be getting about $1,000/month more than I am earning during my retirement.

However, I will give the guaranteed $30,000/year pension up if I get an additional 5% TSP match (for a total of 10%).

I will probably accept a lower match than that for the opportunity of investing the assets myself and avoiding the political clawback.


By the way Clester, if I am not mistaken, the market has been very good for you too.

I hate the risk of counting on politicians.

 

[nnuut]

National Active and Retired Federal EmployeesFlorida Federation of ChaptersFederal Retirement Benefits – CSRS and FERS

Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) Highlights

The older of the two systems, CSRS, started in 1920 and the basic annuity is a “defined benefit program”; it provides an annuity that does not depend on other government benefit programs. Members of the Civil Service Retirement System have 7.00% of their pay deducted each pay period and placed in the CSRS Retirement Trust Fund as one contribution to their eventual CSRS basic annuity. The US Government matches this deduction with another 7.00% contribution into the CSRS Retirement Trust Fund. For the past two decades, CSRS employees have had the option to participate in the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) and/or the Voluntary Contribution Program – ways to increase their retirement incomes.

Because the CSRS was phased out as of December 31, 1983, there are fewer personnel in the federal work force who are CSRS employees. Most members of the CSRS are eligible to retire at age 62 with 5 or more years service, at age 60 with 20 or more years service, or at age 55 with 30 or more years service. (Law Enforcement Officers, Firefighters and Air Traffic Controllers under CSRS are able to retire at age 50 with 20 or more years of service.) Of course, there are other types of CSRS retirements: “disability” or “involuntary” or “reduction-in-force”. Also, there are CSRS Survivor Benefits available if a CSRS member dies before retirement and retirees may elect to have funds deducted from their annuities to provide family members CSRS Retirement Survivor Annuity options.

http://www.narfefl.net/About/fed_retire.htm​

 

[nnuut]

National Active and Retired Federal Employees​

Florida Federation of Chapters​

Federal Retirement Benefits – CSRS and FERS

Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS) Highlights

The newer of the two systems, FERS, started January 1, 1984 and, after a three year interim period, became operational January 1, 1987. FERS employees rely upon three benefits – Basic Annuity, Thrift Savings Plan and Social Security – for their retirement packages. Members of the Federal Employee Retirement System contribute 7.00% of their pay each pay period; 6.20% goes to Social Security and 0.80% goes to FERS. Also, FERS members may deposit up to 15% of their basic pay (limited by an IRS ceiling of $15,000.00 per year in 2006) into the Thrift Savings Plan, a defined contribution program. The agency that employs each FERS member contributes 1% on that employee’s behalf, whether a FERS member contributes any funds to TSP or not; and, up to 5% of the contribution made by each FERS member is matched by the government.

http://www.narfefl.net/About/fed_retire.htm
​

 

[Boghie]

National Active and Retired Federal EmployeesFlorida Federation of ChaptersFederal Retirement Benefits – CSRS and FERS

http://www.narfefl.net/About/fed_retire.htm​

Thanks Nnuut.

I always mention James on this kinda stuff - but you have proven valuable on the hard numbers since I have started perusing this forum...

So, there is the answer Clester.

Those on CSRS contributed 14% of their gross salary to a pension. You should get full pension benefits. That ain't chump change.
Those on FERS contributed less than 1% toward the pension - with the remaining 4% coming from an employer 'match'.

FERS employees really haven't paid for the benefit and the benefit isn't nearly as valuable as the CSRS benefit.

But, personally, I much prefer it. It is actually in a lock box. It is in my name.

 

[nnuut]

CSRS pays 56.25% at 55 years of age and 30 years. I paid in $123,540 dollars over 36.8 years. No matching in TSP.

 

[burrocrat]

I have NO faith and NO confidence in the politicians that 'invest' the assets in our pension while controlling the formulas for benefits.

Never had, never will.

What? You don't go for the fiat money? It's the new religion. Don't you believe in God or something?

 

[burrocrat]

Never had, never will.

 

[nnuut]

CSRS pays 56.25% at 55 years of age and 30 years. I paid in $123,540 dollars over 36.8 years. No matching in TSP.

One other thing, many CSRS folks paid Social Security prior to working for the government. I earned 54 quarters and would have received about $760 a month, but the government thought that was a WINDFALL (WEP) and reduced my SSN by 60% even though I paid SSN for about 15 years. FWM don't you think you should recalculate your numbers?

 

[clester]

I am fers and retired under atc early retirement rules. As a percentage of my high 3, I get 41% from fers, about 11% from supplement and i take about 18% from tsp. Not bad for me.My point was that relying on beating the market for retirement is tricky. If you are lucky you may beat the market. I have had really good years and some bad years. It is easy to think you will get rich off the market and end up losing. In the good years, I would play with calculators and dream about what I could have making 20% in the market or whatever. I am so glad I have the pension or I would be working forever to get a decent income. Especially since atc has to retire at 56!The fers plan is actually a good one although not as good as csrs. You get the guaranteed part that is safe and the tsp part tsp play with. But those that get only 1% per year would have to work for 40 years to get what I have. So I understand that tsp is the main part of most folks retirement.The point I wanted to make was that relying totally on the market and wall street can bite you. Those guys in wall street want to take your money.They are as bad or worse than congress.Just mho.

 

[Boghie]

FWM, I value your posts - but I'm not certain you know the value of a 401(k).

Using the upper limit of your numbers – that is, an $80K average in final 3 years of salary…

• A 30 year CSRS employee will attain an inflation adjusted pension of $48K/year (60%).
• A 30 year FERS employee will attain an inflation adjusted pension of $35K/year (40%).
• Thus, a FERS employee will require an inflation adjusted TSP distribution of $18K/year.

Now,

• the average Annual Return for the past 30 years has been 12.93%
• and, the average CAGR for the past 30 years has been 11.39%
• but, let us use your Average Annual Return of 8%
• and, factor in a 3.1% inflation rate.

Scenario 1: Me

1. Personally, to have 35 years (Age 65 through 100) of inflation adjusted distributions of $18K/year I would have to start pulling out $7,860/year (and increasing by inflation) RIGHT NOW. I am way over invested if all I want is $18K/year. I just turned 47 today. Makes the math real easy in Quicken!!!
2. If I want to match $80K I have to have enough to distribute $45K. To attain that using an 8% return and 3.1% inflation I need to contribute $10K per year to TSP – and that $10K incorporates the 5% match.
3. Thus, it is very probable that I will have to suffer on 100%+ of high salary.

Scenario 2: A newbie starting with a $24K salary

1. Now, assuming one starts their bucolic Federal GS career at age 24 with a starting salary of $24K one would have to contribute $2,800/year of which only $1,680/year is contributed by the employee – the other part is the 5% match. Additionally, that $1,680/year would only cost the employee $1,350/year because of the tax advantaged nature of our 401(k) plan. Thus, out of paycheck, the employee would contribute $52/pay period (going up with inflation). This nets the newbie $18K per year inflation adjusted for 35 years. Not very hard to do.
2. To get $45K/year out of TSP for 35 years our above newbie would have to contribute $6,800/year which is steep. But, the above chap never had his/her salary increased by more than inflation – no bonuses, no step increases, no promotions, no better paying jobs. Thus, this chap would still have a High-3 average salary of $24K/year. So, this example is a bit odd. He/she would end up with the equivalent of $54,600/year in an inflation adjusted retirement. Yowser.
3. These chaps will be chomping on caviar – not fighting the dog for Alpo.

I think one other corollary demonstrates itself: The pension is not paid for – especially for FERS employees, but probably not for CSRS either. Assuming 4.25 Average Return (pensions are ‘invested’ in the ‘G Fund’) and a 3.1% inflation rate:
24 year old CSRS employee:

• 14% of $24K = $3,360/year contribution
• A benefit of 60% of $24K = $14,400/year inflation adjusted pension.
• Requires a $8K+ contribution on year one and then adjusted for inflation. Thus, the CSRS pension looks to be significantly underfunded and thus potentially gameable by politicians. However, CSRS employees do not get Social Security and do not get a 401(k) match. To me, the pension looks fair. I will not be marching around the White House with a ‘Don’t Tread on Me’ sign.

24 year old FERS employee:

• Not even worth doing the math. I mean, a 0.8% contribution resulting in a $9,600/year (to be adjusted for inflation) benefit. Yowser.

In the end, FWM, we FERS types have a tremendous retirement package. And, the critical part of it is TSP.

Question: is the FERS pension just part of Social Security – or is it added to Social Security and TSP?

Note: Please don't take these computations as gospel. They are hard to do, I am untrained, and I am a year older and slower:toung: