Arizona Immigration law

[CountryBoy]

Alevin, What does the new law require? Then I will carry it when I go to AZ, so I'll be within the law.

 

[Frixxxx]

You know what Frixxx, yes there are federal AGENCIES and PROGRAMS that Congress and the Pres don't fund or limit funding for-which inhibits ability to ENFORCE the laws the agencies are tasked with carrying out (the programs are there to implement the laws). surprise surprise. More border enforcement is needed, I totally agree. the impact of illegals on municipal, county and state services and financing is evident in this state too, just not as bad as in AZ.

There'll be a lot of people who pay the fine on HC, it'll be cheaper for them than buying the insurance. Heck, younger members of my family are likely to be in that crowd once they figure it out (and become old enough to leave home). I am in a state of suspended animation on longterm impacts of HC bill, we won't see full impact for some time yet thanks to the phase-in.

Alevin, I used your statement as a platform to launch a "federal government" needs to be fiscally responsible when it comes to their enforcement of law. Not an atack on you ~ sorry if you felt that it was.

I'm hearing the feds can't do this and that because they haven't budgeted or set money aside for things that they are supposed to do, and yet, here they are yelling and screaming at banks and calling them "Sh*tty". You see where I am at? The pot calling the kettle black? I am not even on a political platform here, this is way higher. If we are going to start legislating businesses and states from the federal level then abolish the states and vote these issues at a general election.

I live in a state that for every federal tax dollar I pay, only 80 cents comes back. Why? Give that 20 cents back so California has more healthcare and secured borders.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2009/0724/which-states-get-the-most-federal-money
UTAH should be spitting blood with these numbers.

Ask my ancestors about "illegal immigration". They hated it as much then, as I do now. At least my ancestors fought until they were almost extinct. Now this society says we can't even fight. We can't even ask a little question?
I have to roll over?

No!

 

[alevin]

We're on the same page, Frixxxx. totally agree.

 

[alevin]

Alevin, What does the new law require? Then I will carry it when I go to AZ, so I'll be within the law.

CB, a passport is always proof of citizenship. Just make sure you have a backup proof-like your SS card, voter precinct card, marriage licence, birth certificate....in case your passport gets lost or stolen while you're there.

Me, I don't carry those things around with me unless I need to show 2 forms to get my Linkpass to sign on my computer at work, or to get my DL renewed (state law). Now that I got my linkpass, (condition of my job), and got my DL renewed (2 years ago), my proofs of citizenshp are safely back at home where they belong, like my parents taught me to protect them. I'll just stay out of AZ, no need to go there.

 

[Minnow]

They will currently accept an AZ DL, they will NOT accept a DL from another state as proof of citizenship. QUOTE]

Where did you get this idea?

 

[CountryBoy]

Well if I go to AZ, I'll be sure to pull them from the safe or Saftey Deposit box, in the mean time, I'll keep a close eye on reports from AZ of all the American Citizens being thrown in jail, cause most don't carry that info and since the law specifically calls for it, the jails will be full and we'll hear plenty of reports.

Thanks for telling me all the info the new law requires.

 

[Frixxxx]

Reid-Schumer-Menendez Draft for Immigration reform...

Wow, Biometrics used for enforcement? I think the ACLU will prefer a DL check any day!

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/RSMBillOutline.pdf

 

[Minnow]

Well if I go to AZ, I'll be sure to pull them from the safe or Saftey Deposit box, in the mean time, I'll keep a close eye on reports from AZ of all the American Citizens being thrown in jail, cause most don't carry that info and since the law specifically calls for it, the jails will be full and we'll hear plenty of reports.

Thanks for telling me all the info the new law requires.

That information was wrong. If you don't believe me, go ahead and read the Arizona bill.

Go ahead and carry what you want (although checking their CCW laws is always good advice). Your Ohio DL is just fine -- just have registration and proof of insurance.

 

[CountryBoy]

That information was wrong. If you don't believe me, go ahead and read the Arizona bill.

Go ahead and carry what you want (although checking their CCW laws is always good advice). Your Ohio DL is just fine -- just have registration and proof of insurance.

I believe you Minnow,

Good to go on the CCW, all the states in between honor my CCW.

 

[XL-entLady]

CB, I don't recall anyone saying shouldn't have to show proof of citizenship (or green card), before getting hired for a job. I personally believe employers need to be held accountable to best of their ability.

I'm talking about getting pulled over on the road somewhere for something simple like busted taillight, failure to signal right turn, going 5 miles over the limit-and suddenly having proof of citizenship demanded or getting thrown in jail. If you're in AZ, having an Ohio DL or a credit card wouldn't cut it. You'd get thrown in jail til somebody arrived from Ohio with the right papers. Doesn't matter if your ancestors celebrated the first Thanksgiving.

I said earlier that yes, AZ needs to do something to help themselves since the feds are so underfunded and unsupported at sealing the border, that it's all in the way the state law is implemented.

Thank you for saying that. It's exactly the way I feel. But it's getting a little scary for James or me to post in this thread.

 

[James48843]

Reid-Schumer-Menendez Draft for Immigration reform...

Wow, Biometrics used for enforcement? I think the ACLU will prefer a DL check any day!

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/RSMBillOutline.pdf

Yes, biometrics. Go take a look at the various drafts of the bills now- the 9-11 commission recommendations, and the current law on the books. They have been talking for a decade about using biometrics as a requirement on border identity. Eye Iris scans and electronic fingerprints are both biometric ID methods that already are being used and talked about in various programs.

 

[Buster]

LET ME SEE IF I GOT THIS RIGHT…

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.

IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.

IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET

1 - A JOB,

2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,

3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,

4 - WELFARE,

5 - FOOD STAMPS,

6 - CREDIT CARDS,

7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,

8 - FREE EDUCATION,

9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,

10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON

11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE

12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT

.

Touche' CB..

and now it's time to play this again..

 

[James48843]

Thank you for saying that. It's exactly the way I feel. But it's getting a little scary for James or me to post in this thread.

Sorry Lady- I'm not scared to post in this thread- Just busy. It's lunch now- so here goes-


I believe in law enforcment carrying out the law. I have no problem with that position.

I believe illegal aliens should leave the country. I have no problem with that position.

I believe illegal aliens should not be able to work in this country. I have no problem at all with that position.

I don't like it that the federal government went from 3,000 border patrol, to 18,000 border patrol, and then the people who wanted that are now screaming "GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS TO STOP". Hey- that's part of the government spending.

Is 18,000 the number needed to close the border down? I don't think so, but I don't know what the number is.

So either hire and place the people you need to close the border, (and don't complain that spending is too high....) or fix the problem so we don't have all those flowing over the border. Is that a work program? I don't know. That's what the people in DC have to figure out. What it will take to close the border.


What I personally have a BIG problem with- is the aibility to stop a person, without probable cause, and make them prove that they are an American citizen, or else they get thrown in the clink. THAT is my beef.

An American citizen should not have to produce papers for any govenrment authority- simply to transit public spaces, cross state lines, etc.

Crossing the border is different. I have no problem with checking a passport at the border.

Once here, however, I see a mountain of difference, and a 4th amendment "seizer" issue that I do not like.

That's all I am saying. I am not prepared to give up my rights- and the rights of fellow citizens, and have to produce documents to prove my, or other citizens, legal ability to walk or drive around.

It's just not right. It's not the America I want to live in.

F-r-e-e-d-o-m means not having to go to jail for refusing to produce a birth certificate. (Hey- we're back to that birth certificate thingy, aren't we? )

 

[CountryBoy]

Sorry Lady- I'm not scared to post in this thread- Just busy. It's lunch now- so here goes-


I believe in law enforcment carrying out the law. I have no problem with that position.

I believe illegal aliens should leave the country. I have no problem with that position.

I believe illegal aliens should not be able to work in this country. I have no problem at all with that position.

I don't like it that the federal government went from 3,000 border patrol, to 18,000 border patrol, and then the people who wanted that are now screaming "GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS TO STOP". Hey- that's part of the government spending.

Is 18,000 the number needed to close the border down? I don't think so, but I don't know what the number is.

So either hire and place the people you need to close the border, (and don't complain that spending is too high....) or fix the problem so we don't have all those flowing over the border. Is that a work program? I don't know. That's what the people in DC have to figure out. What it will take to close the border.


What I personally have a BIG problem with- is the aibility to stop a person, without probable cause, and make them prove that they are an American citizen, or else they get thrown in the clink. THAT is my beef.

An American citizen should not have to produce papers for any govenrment authority- simply to transit public spaces, cross state lines, etc.

Crossing the border is different. I have no problem with checking a passport at the border.

Once here, however, I see a mountain of difference, and a 4th amendment "seizer" issue that I do not like.

That's all I am saying. I am not prepared to give up my rights- and the rights of fellow citizens, and have to produce documents to prove my, or other citizens, legal ability to walk or drive around.

It's just not right. It's not the America I want to live in.

F-r-e-e-d-o-m means not having to go to jail for refusing to produce a birth certificate. (Hey- we're back to that birth certificate thingy, aren't we? )

Hang on James.

I agree with ya on this issue. unless there is a MG in the back seat and then I'm not sure about the 4th.

CB

 

[Steadygain]

I must've of missed the implants under the skin becoming law

CB, My comment about implants under the skin was directly related to the O man openly stating he is outraged about the AZ law.

So my point is -- he (as the SOB Leader of our Nation) -- had better make sure he can openly come up with a better plan if he's going to openly degrade the one at hand. I use the term 'SOB' because if he doesn't have something better in mind then he has 'NO PLACE' to be critizing anything.

The People in AZ are the ones living with all this rahm and they are the ones actively having to deal with it all -- not someone in D.C.

So if a STATE next to the border wants to take steps to curb a very significant problem then the President should be showing very huge support for them taking a stand to address it.

and you must have missed my post of all the places and times, that we as Legal American Citizens must show id as a normal part of life. Dang those pesky facts, but ya don't have to acknowlege them.

If we 'Legal American Citizens' must show some kind of ID as a normal part of our life -- at all places and times. Then a small implant would make a whole lot more sense then carrying some card -- others can 'copy' or we could lose or forget.

Your implants under the skin seems to work for you.

Actually it was off the top of my head -- only thinking if O man wants to criticize AZ -- then he'd better have a better plan. My thought at that time was 'Immigrants would get the implant if they are legal'.

Also, If you find me annoying ,

Where the hell is that coming from ??

I totally supported everything you said ! Believe it or not - all my comments were line by line in agreement with you.

just hit the ignore button, I'm sure others have and it'll make your life must better, not having to listen to someone using his right of free speech.

That'll be nice and easy for ya.

Whatever -- if I find you annoying -- I'll either say something to ya or ignore it -- but I'm cool with you CB. And BTW -- I'm about the most Ultra Conservative guy around -- now that my wife let me know the difference.

My only comments that remotely varried from yours are:
1. I think the MODs are the best of the best and Show-me could rightfully be one again as far as I'm concerned.

2. Someone who goes out of there way to make posts that are excessively annoying and irritating -- and deliberately meant to grade against others -- I would not call 'progressive' -- but here I mean the word in a literal sense.

would probably favor: dip rahm -- or something similar

 

[Steadygain]

I'll just stay out of AZ, no need to go there.

Oooh Alevie --- and LADY !!

Don't ever let yourself start feeling this way -- AZ is close to Utah.

We can't dismiss the opportunity to take in all the beautiful sights that AZ uniquely holds anymore than writting Utah off. These sort of things go way beyond 'immigrants'. We're talking about some of the most beautiful sights in the USA.

Plus both of them have some super great resorts and don't forget the people that live there. Gosh.

There is always a need to go there -- we just haven't advanced enough to recognize how great and pressing that need really is.

 

[alevin]

Sorry Lady- I'm not scared to post in this thread- Just busy. It's lunch now- so here goes-


I believe in law enforcment carrying out the law. I have no problem with that position.

I believe illegal aliens should leave the country. I have no problem with that position.

I believe illegal aliens should not be able to work in this country. I have no problem at all with that position.

I don't like it that the federal government went from 3,000 border patrol, to 18,000 border patrol, and then the people who wanted that are now screaming "GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS TO STOP". Hey- that's part of the government spending.

Is 18,000 the number needed to close the border down? I don't think so, but I don't know what the number is.

So either hire and place the people you need to close the border, (and don't complain that spending is too high....) or fix the problem so we don't have all those flowing over the border. Is that a work program? I don't know. That's what the people in DC have to figure out. What it will take to close the border.


What I personally have a BIG problem with- is the aibility to stop a person, without probable cause, and make them prove that they are an American citizen, or else they get thrown in the clink. THAT is my beef.

An American citizen should not have to produce papers for any govenrment authority- simply to transit public spaces, cross state lines, etc.

Crossing the border is different. I have no problem with checking a passport at the border.

Once here, however, I see a mountain of difference, and a 4th amendment "seizer" issue that I do not like.

That's all I am saying. I am not prepared to give up my rights- and the rights of fellow citizens, and have to produce documents to prove my, or other citizens, legal ability to walk or drive around.

It's just not right. It's not the America I want to live in.

F-r-e-e-d-o-m means not having to go to jail for refusing to produce a birth certificate. (Hey- we're back to that birth certificate thingy, aren't we? )

Garsh, I could swear this is exactly what I've been saying.

 

[XL-entLady]

... I am not prepared to give up my rights- and the rights of fellow citizens, and have to produce documents to prove my, or other citizens, legal ability to walk or drive around.

It's just not right. It's not the America I want to live in.

F-r-e-e-d-o-m means not having to go to jail for refusing to produce a birth certificate. (Hey- we're back to that birth certificate thingy, aren't we? )

And it may not be just a birth certificate.

I was talking to my brother on the phone last night. I'm a fair skinned redhead but my brother is very tanned with dark hair. So much so that when he was little, people thought that he and my Navajo sister were twins. He was talking to a relative of ours who is an AZ highway patrolman because my brother travels in AZ a lot in his work and he was trying to figure out what if anything he needed to do.

The HP told him that he didn't know what the regulatory elements of the law were going to be yet but he advised my brother to carry a certified copy of his birth certificate while in AZ until that was all worked out. Then he said it could have been even worse. Because if my brother didn't currently have the same name on his drivers license as appeared on his birth certificate (think "women who change their last name when they get married") then he would have to have a legal transition document (such as a marriage license) too.

This thing just keeps getting better and better.

 

[Frixxxx]

What I personally have a BIG problem with- is the aibility to stop a person, without probable cause, and make them prove that they are an American citizen, or else they get thrown in the clink. THAT is my beef.

An American citizen should not have to produce papers for any govenrment authority- simply to transit public spaces, cross state lines, etc.

The problem is, your Terry Stop Law allows police to stop people under reasonable concerns. Not just for walking down the street.

Once here, however, I see a mountain of difference, and a 4th amendment "seizer" issue that I do not like.

That's all I am saying. I am not prepared to give up my rights- and the rights of fellow citizens, and have to produce documents to prove my, or other citizens, legal ability to walk or drive around.

It's just not right. It's not the America I want to live in.

F-r-e-e-d-o-m means not having to go to jail for refusing to produce a birth certificate. (Hey- we're back to that birth certificate thingy, aren't we? )

With great power comes great responsibility......We as a nation have forgotten responsibility. How do we get responsible enough to get Millions of people back to their country of origin? The only way I know how is to PROVE IT!

Make a sacrifice. I have given blood, DNA, fingerprints to prove who I am to my country, how can we get everyone else to do that? Lets initiate a Prove you're a citizen day and shame everyone into doing it?

How do we go back to America and say,"We screwed up!, we need to make it right and we must do 1,2,3 to correct the situation!"

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

CB, if you get pulled over, they can demand proof of citizenship-the new law REQUIRES LE to enforce, they can be sued by AZ citizens if they don't enforce. They will currently accept an AZ DL, they will NOT accept a DL from another state as proof of citizenship. What do you carry in your wallet that would keep you out of jail in AZ under the new state law if you were stopped and asked for proof? My 2 youngest nephews are citizens with colonial ancestry on my side. they look Hispanic, their mother is Puerto Rican. Should they need to carry passports on their persons at all times, even tho you don't?

If anyone is interested in the facts, here is a link to the text of Arizona Senate Bill 1070. Here is a link to a summary page.