and the HITS just keep on coming!

[OBGibby]

Let's agree to disagree. I have no problem with the government offering lower percentage loans than banks for higher education. If these loans provide a chance for low income or middle income kids to get a good education I'm for it. If you want to talk about government subsidies lets look at the oil companies or some of our largest companies. How about the farming industy? Without the loans my girls wouldn't have gone to college. My youngest is a good Interior Designer and my eldest is helping run a well established catering company. I mean this with all sincerety, if you were able to send your children to college without taking out loans that is fantastic and I really mean it. I needed to take advantage of the loans.

And I have no problem with you taking out loans to pay for their college (nice thing to do for your kids) - I just would like to see the government get out of the business and let banks set the market for the rates and leave the taxpayer out of it.

 

[OBGibby]

Frankly, our system of public higher education is royally screwed up these days. The average middle class family cannot afford the cost of higher education today regardless of how loans are financed. At their current price, BAs or BSs are hardly worth it! Why in the F are public universities costing $80,000 and up for a 4 year degree?!! Stop bitching about "socialized" student loans and bitch about the real problem instead. Geesh !!!!!!

See my earlier posts about government backing of student loans contributing to the absurd inflation of college costs. My argument is that the government backing of student loans is contributing to those rising costs you're "bitching" about. Maybe you saw the word "socialization" and went into instant defense mode of your particular political persuasion, but a more careful analysis of the college loan issue reveals it's been an issue politicians from both parties have used it to their political benefit for decades. Those that benefit the most from the "everyone needs to go to college" mantra is the higher education crowd - costs just keep going up and return on investment keeps going down. Doesn't matter to the higher education crowd, there's more suckers coming in the door each year with easy and cheap money to pay for that "education."

 

[James48843]

Hey Gibby-

What school was that again?

 

[Sensei]

Hey Gibby-

What school was that again?

Someone mentioned an $80,000 public college education, and I can't imagine what that is referring to. I completed a masters degree at a Cal State University from 2004-7, and it cost $8-10K per year, depending on courseload, books, and whether I attended summer quarter. I can't imagine the cost has skyrocketed to $20K now.

 

[SkyPilot]

Read'm and weep.... Best Values in Public Colleges, 2011-12, http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_articles/Education_Inflation.asp

"Many schools have increased tuition fees due to higher overhead costs. Fuel and labor costs continue to rise. Many older college buildings are in need of renovation or replacement. The demand for expanded libraries and new research and computer labs is at an all-time high. Some schools also need additional security measures.
Yet, the main reason tuition continues to rise is a dramatic change that took place regarding the Federal Stafford Loan more than a decade ago. When Uncle Sam opened the floodgates to government-backed student loans without parent income restrictions in 1992, colleges welcomed the news with open arms. The sudden injection of millions of additional aid dollars only furthered tuition increases. Add to that the government’s continued promotion of the Stafford Loan as a low-cost program, and you have the formula for hyperinflationary costs.
When the government made it exceptionally easy for students to borrow massive amounts of money, the colleges followed the lead by increasing their tuition rates. This combination led to record-level borrowing. Today the average undergraduate student loan debt is nearing $20,000. Those who go on to graduate school often end up with an additional $30,000. Law and medical students report an average accumulated debt from all years (undergraduate and graduate study) of $91,700. "

Someone mentioned an $80,000 public college education, and I can't imagine what that is referring to. I completed a masters degree at a Cal State University from 2004-7, and it cost $8-10K per year, depending on courseload, books, and whether I attended summer quarter. I can't imagine the cost has skyrocketed to $20K now.

 

[Sensei]

Read'm and weep.... Best Values in Public Colleges, 2011-12, InflationData: Education Inflation
"

These numbers all include room and board. According to UC Berkeley's website, tuition and fees cost $13K and change for a year of undergrad. Still pretty reasonable compared to Stanford or USC. The room and board issues are inflation-related issues shared by all Americans, not just college students.

 

[OBGibby]

Hey Gibby-

What school was that again?

Occidental College, Columbia, Harvard Law

(Sorry, that was too hard to resist!)

 

[Khotso]

See my earlier posts about government backing of student loans contributing to the absurd inflation of college costs. My argument is that the government backing of student loans is contributing to those rising costs you're "bitching" about. Maybe you saw the word "socialization" and went into instant defense mode of your particular political persuasion, but a more careful analysis of the college loan issue reveals it's been an issue politicians from both parties have used it to their political benefit for decades. Those that benefit the most from the "everyone needs to go to college" mantra is the higher education crowd - costs just keep going up and return on investment keeps going down. Doesn't matter to the higher education crowd, there's more suckers coming in the door each year with easy and cheap money to pay for that "education."

Oh, so you want to make those loans even more expensive so that only those who can afford them or can pay costs out of pocket can actually go to college??

I read your post and understand your point, but still think it ignores the real problem and therefore misses the target. Maybe I did react to the word "socialized", but leaping to the conclusion that "subsidized loans/access" is the problem is a knee-jerk reaction of another particular political persuasion as well.

Subsidized loans in and of themselves aren't the problem; they didn't cause the "absurd inflation" of public college costs over the past couple of decades. That argument attacks the people who aspire to getting an affordable college education as opposed to those who are making a killing via our higher education finance system (the bankers and the university fat cats).

Why not go back to what many States did in the past: finance loans directly as opposed to through banks? Why not begin to reduce university salaries to a reasonable level? Salaries and benefits are way out of control -- especially for administrators, department heads, deans, and long-term tenured faculty. One million $/year salary for President of a State University?? Two million $ severance pay for an Athletics Director who left on his own volition??!! Give me a break!????


(By the way, somebody else questioned the $80,000 figure ... it's roughly $20,000/year here in Oregon -- look it up; just go to the U of O and Oregon State websites to see for yourself. I'm not making this stuff up. Two of my kids went thru those systems recently -- so believe me, I know.)

 

[Sensei]

(By the way, somebody else questioned the $80,000 figure ... it's roughly $20,000/year here in Oregon -- look it up; just go to the U of O and Oregon State websites to see for yourself. I'm not making this stuff up. Two of my kids went thru those systems recently -- so believe me, I know.)

I guess I shouldn't focus on something that isn't the point of this thread. But I looked up U of O, and tuition and fees for 2012-13 will cost a little over $9200. Again, the $20K figure includes room and board. Obviously, you have to pay that when your kid goes to college. But you (or your kid) would have to pay rent, utilities, and living expenses just the same if they didn't go to college and moved out on their own to work or something. I'll just let it go though, because I'm off topic. Carry on.

 

[Khotso]

I guess I shouldn't focus on something that isn't the point of this thread. But I looked up U of O, and tuition and fees for 2012-13 will cost a little over $9200. Again, the $20K figure includes room and board. Obviously, you have to pay that when your kid goes to college. But you (or your kid) would have to pay rent, utilities, and living expenses just the same if they didn't go to college and moved out on their own to work or something. I'll just let it go though, because I'm off topic. Carry on.

Yeah, and the total cost (room and board, etc.) included is $19,000 plus. Those costs are real! Let's don't smoke and mirrors this thing. $9200 a year for 45 term credits is a lot of money when you have classes that average whatever they average -- probably over 100 students each. So assuming it's half that (50), $460,000 per class is reasonable!? Get real!

I'm all for teachers and professors making a fair wage. I'm big supporter of public education. But things are out of control.

 

[PessOptimist]

Umm...The Day Job/Federal Employees.

The money saved by milking Feds will go to lowering the interest rates for student loans?

Higher Education and intellectual growth do not have a lot in common.

Someone start a thread with that name.

I mainly deal with people with Engineering degrees and Technical degrees. I like the letters BS and AS or AAS. They say a lot. Both come to the world of real jobs in need of a lot of OJT.

Those with the BA degrees that cannot apply the degree to a real job, oh well. Some of those degrees are classified as BS which has a real meaning.

What's up with H.R. 5652? I haven't had time to look.

PO

 

[nasa1974]

Federal News -- Breaking Reports and Analysis for Government Employees - News - GovExec.com


Weather Service says it may furlough 5,000 employees

Move comes as agency seeks to address funding shortfall in the wake of scandal over ...

 

[OBGibby]

Subprime College Educations - George Will, Washington Post

 

[James48843]

So there you go. Weather Service senior managers screw up, and it's the 5,000 low-level worker-bee employees who get laid off.

Isn't that always the case?

Weather Service says it may furlough 5,000 employees - Oversight - GovExec.com

I wonder..... If they just laid off off those Senior Managers and SES's- would that fix the budget?

Are they going to be laid off for 13 days too?

 

[nnuut]

So there you go. Weather Service senior managers screw up, and it's the 5,000 low-level worker-bee employees who get laid off.

Isn't that always the case?

Weather Service says it may furlough 5,000 employees - Oversight - GovExec.com

I wonder..... If they just laid off off those Senior Managers and SES's- would that fix the budget?

Are they going to be laid off for 13 days too?

Hey Jame,s are you not a Senior Manager?

 

[James48843]

Hey Jame,s are you not a Senior Manager?

HA! You are a funny, funny guy Nnnut.

No- I am not a Senior Manager!

Nor do I play one on TV.

I am proud to be a lowly run-of-the-mill federal worker-bee,
toiling away anonymously behind the scenes,
in the hope that I can make our nation a better place.

 

[James48843]

GSA PER DIEM RATES:
LOWER HOTEL REIMBURSEMENTS BY 30%

Feds may see sharply lower per diem rates when they travel beginning in October.

The General Services Administration is considering lowering lodging per diems by up to 30 percent, say travel industry officials familiar with a GSA proposal.
GSA recently discussed with travel industry officials the possibility that it will revise how it calculates average per diems by removing more costly hotels from its averages — lowering the resulting per diem. Lower per diems would mean fewer choices for federal travelers, said Shawn McBurney, senior vice president of governmental affairs at American Hotel and Lodging Association, who is familiar with GSA’s proposal. He estimated that about 85 percent of Washington, D.C., hotels charge rates that would exceed per diems if GSA uses the new methodology.

Roger Dow, president of the U.S. Travel Association, which represents hotels, airlines and other travel-related industries, said the GSA proposal is part of a broader reaction to wasteful spending at an $823,000 Western Regions Conference in Las Vegas in 2010. An April inspector general’s report on the conference led to the ouster of GSA’s top leadership, numerous hearings in Congress, legislation aimed at curbing travel spending and a top-to-bottom review of the agency by GSA’s new acting administrator, Dan Tangherlini.

A GSA spokesman declined to confirm or deny whether the agency is considering a new methodology to calculate per diem rates. He said the agency is following an Office of Management and Budget directive to reduce travel spending by 30 percent in fiscal 2013 compared to a 2010 baseline.

More at: GSA considering sharply lower per diem rates, industry sources say | Federal Times | federaltimes.com


I have already spent 39 nights in hotels so far this year. Just thinking that I'll have to either find hotels that cost 30% lower *(I have a hard time today sometimes finding rooms at the per diem rate) means I'll have a much harder time getting hotels.


Motel 6 comes to mind-Living the life on the road as a fed.


and the HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING...

We'll leave the light on for ya.

 

[Kaufmanrider]

I probably spend 10-12 weeks a year on the road. Most places I stay are rural or semi-rural so the rest of U.S. rates usually are accepted, i.e., Best Western, Holiday Inn Express, Hampton Inn, Comfort Inn and Suites, etc. What is it, 87 a night? From what I have read those rates won't be changing. However, when I travel to a Metro Area, I'll have to find cheaper hotels, no more Embassy Suites, Hilton, Sheraton, etc., as they will be removed from the rate calculations. I always have a government car, so I'll drive a bit more from the hotel to where I am working. As long as they don't cut our daily per diem

More at: GSA considering sharply lower per diem rates, industry sources say | Federal Times | federaltimes.com


I have already spent 39 nights in hotels so far this year. Just thinking that I'll have to either find hotels that cost 30% lower *(I have a hard time today sometimes finding rooms at the per diem rate) means I'll have a much harder time getting hotels.


Motel 6 comes to mind-Living the life on the road as a fed.

View attachment 19461
and the HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING...

We'll leave the light on for ya.

 

[James48843]

I probably spend 10-12 weeks a year on the road. Most places I stay are rural or semi-rural so the rest of U.S. rates usually are accepted, i.e., Best Western, Holiday Inn Express, Hampton Inn, Comfort Inn and Suites, etc. What is it, 87 a night? From what I have read those rates won't be changing.

No, the "rest of US" rate is now $77. I haven't read anywhere that they are not changing that. If they do change that, it drops to $54.

Can you find a decent hotel room for $54?

Motel Six....I'm telling ya.

 

[Kaufmanrider]

No, the "rest of US" rate is now $77. I haven't read anywhere that they are not changing that. If they do change that, it drops to $54.

Can you find a decent hotel room for $54?

Motel Six....I'm telling ya.

Sorry about that, my mistake. Our office secretary usually makes my travel reservations for me/us.

The way I read the article they are looking to remove the high end priced hotels from the calculations, therefore, lowering the overall average rate for each area. Rural areas, rest of U.S., usually have lower rates top and bottom, fewer hotels, more competitive, so rates are closer amongst them. So I don't see that average changing to much, maybe a couple bucks. And I think most those hotels would simply adjust their pricing to accomodate Gov. employees.

However, large Metro areas have big expensive hotels and cheaper cut rate hotels. That's where the hit will come. Removing the higher priced hotels will dramatically drop the per diem rate average for that area. And with other travelers willing to pay high prices, I don't see those hotels changing their Gov rates too much just to get a few Fed's to stay with them. So when you go to the big city, you'll either stay in the suburbs and drive, or stay at one of those cut rate hotels in a not so good of a part of town.