TSP Talk Silver Coins Update

Should we buy the TSP Talk Silver Dies

  • Yes (so we can make more)

    Votes: 7 53.8%

  • No (keep them limited to those already made)

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Make different dies (Let's make a new coin)

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
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Also, I found this post from Tom back in late 2014:

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Re: TSP Talk Silver Coins / "Rounds"[/h]
Thanks, Burro, for getting this started and doing the dirty work.

As burro said, I decided to buy it all up front to make it easier to sell them to our members - one point of contact. You pay on TSP Talk, you get the silver within a few days. So once the order is shipped to me, we'll start taking the actual order. We won't have to worry about some folks backing out, not hitting the number we estimated, etc.

Getting the estimate helps me know how many to order initially. I'm thinking 500 is enough for now, and that will leave me some to give as AutoTracker prizes.

Also, since I own the die, we can reprint more if there is a demand but we'll keep it somewhat limited. Maybe 1000 total? We'll see."

So it looks as if Tom personally owns the dies. Unless this 'ownership' is only the 'sole right to use the dies' and NWTM retained actual physical ownership. Anyway, as I said, it might be worth looking into. Burro, did you see any of the documents associated with our BUY?​
 
uscfanhawaii said:
If I am reading this document correctly, it seems to say that they will only sell the dies to other coin MINTERS.

That is, 'It is the intent of the Trustee to sell the NWTM Dies, subjectto court approval, to a buyer capable of preserving the NWTM Dies and producing coins,medallions or other products at the request of the customer.'

One other thing....the document talks about certain agreements may have been made that the customer would retain ownership of the dies. Was that not the case for the TSP Silver Coins? I seem to remember that we had to pay for the dies up front, because the size of our order was, comparedly, small. Might be worth looking into.
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Good eye uscfanhawaii.

It also says,

"PLEASE TAKE FURTHER NOTICE that based upon his investigation of the records of NWTMand the historical business practices of the business, the Trustee believes that with limited
exceptions, NWTM retained ownership of all NWTM Dies created to produce coins, medallions,
or other products for customers. ..."

Maybe an exception is when the die is engraved with a registered trademark?

Even so, they've already said they'd sell them to Tom...so if that restriction you noticed applies...maybe it won't be enforced in this case.

I did quickly read a little of the case, and at least one (pro se, so far) 'complaint' has been submitted against the Trustee by a customer. And, the Trustee also has been admonished by the Judge regarding unrelated timeliness.

I know little about commercial bankruptcy cases; maybe drama is the norm. But the situation seems turbulent to me. Probably better to act sooner rather than later...if one is going to act at all. :worried::D
 
uscfanhawaii said:
Also, I found this post from Tom back in late 2014:

"
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Re: TSP Talk Silver Coins / "Rounds"

...

Also, since I own the die, ...​
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Maybe that's an 'exception' as well. :)

But it does raise the question: why would have to buy what you already own?

Obviously, own doesn't necessarily mean own. :)
 
And also this one from Nov 2014:

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Re: buy some tsptalk silver now cheapskate![/h]

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Originally Posted by tsptalk
If I would own the die, how about I put up the $1500 for it? Would that help bring folks in?

By the way, my business that owns TSP Talk is actually called, Buy Low Sell High, Inc. Not sure if we should squeeze that in real small.




ok, oh yeah! that is like a $3 discount per coin over previous expenses we were talking!"
Not sure if this additional info helps, but it does seem relevent.​
 
They have offered me the dies so I assume it's OK for them to sell to me.

I assume the $400 per die we paid was to have them created... but I'm not sure about ownership. At least that's the way it sounds now.
 
tsptalk said:
They have offered me the dies so I assume it's OK for them to sell to me.

I assume the $400 per die we paid was to have them created... but I'm not sure about ownership. At least that's the way it sounds now.
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What do the original papers say? Would be worth the look if you (or Burro?) still have them! :D
 
Seems like you have evidence that you already own the dies. Send a copy to the Bankrupcy Court and ask that they be sent to you!
Just a suggestion....but I think you have a case. It doesn't say 'cost to make die', it says die part number 'M12 and M13'.

I am not a lawyer but it seems like it's worth a try.

Maybe there are some FED lawyers in TSPTalk out there???
 
FWIW which is nothing, I saw an ad on TV at about 0230 this morning while passing through the wife's bedroom. It claimed silver is going to go up 200% and no one can afford to miss it. No idea what channel it was.

My experience with "FED" lawyers, USC fan, is that they estimate what it would cost to prosecute or defend a case and their superiors recommend settling for that amount or maybe a little less. Pro Bono advice is not something you should hope for.

PO
 
uscfanhawaii said:
Seems like you have evidence that you already own the dies. Send a copy to the Bankrupcy Court and ask that they be sent to you!
Just a suggestion....but I think you have a case. It doesn't say 'cost to make die', it says die part number 'M12 and M13'.

I am not a lawyer but it seems like it's worth a try.

Maybe there are some FED lawyers in TSPTalk out there???
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I asked about that and below is their response.

It has been Northwest Territorial Mint’s standard practice that we do not give away our dies. Dies are considered a subset of Northwest Territorial Mint’s tooling and as such the property of Northwest Territorial Mint. Just like any other tools we use to strike a customer’s order - such as presses, polishing wheels, blanking machines, etc – dies are also tools used in the production of product. We go to great lengths to preserve dies in our facility and do so at our own cost; we have never charged customers the cost of die storage and preservation.

Since we have filed for bankruptcy we are giving the customers the option to claim die ownership of the dies.

If the dies are not claimed then they will be transferred to the new vendor once that vendor has been determined.
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This makes me think that we should do nothing since the dies don't get destroyed but transferred to another vendor, where I assume we can use them again if needed.

Thanks for all of your input!
 
tsptalk said:
I asked about that and below is their response.



This makes me think that we should do nothing since the dies don't get destroyed...
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They won't be destroyed by Northwest.

tsptalk said:
...but transferred to another vendor, where I assume we can use them again if needed...
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Sorry Sir, we "sold those dies for scrap." But we still have your design from NW, and we can "create new ones" for half the cost of the originals if you use the same designs.​

Someone here once told me that they believe that "BS makes the world go 'round." I have a different viewpoint, but nevertheless ... be careful out there. :)
 
tsptalk said:
I asked about that and below is their response.



This makes me think that we should do nothing since the dies don't get destroyed but transferred to another vendor, where I assume we can use them again if needed.

Thanks for all of your input!
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This is lame.
Dies are considered a subset of Northwest Territorial Mint’s tooling and as such the property of Northwest Territorial Mint. Just like any other tools we use to strike a customer’s order - such as presses, polishing wheels, blanking machines, etc – dies are also tools used in the production of product. We go to great lengths to preserve dies in our facility and do so at our own cost; we have never charged customers the cost of die storage and preservation.
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No they are not otherwise TSP would not have had to pony up for the original $800 to make the dies. Or, you should have been charged extra for the use of the other tools. Thank God they are not charging you for storage of the dies as well as the presses, polishing wheels, blanking machines. What a load of crapola. Tell them to kiss off and have someone else make dies for you, that you are paying for, and then tell them to ship the dies to you for your own safe keeping this time.
 
tsptalk said:
This makes me think that we should do nothing since the dies don't get destroyed but transferred to another vendor, where I assume we can use them again if needed.
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They have relented. Just $45 shipping for each die... no other costs. :banana:

I'll let you know when I have them.

Thanks!
 
tsptalk said:
They have relented. Just $45 shipping for each die... no other costs. :banana:

I'll let you know when I have them.

Thanks!
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Got them! I'm not ready to deal with another order right now so hopefully the price of silver behaves for a while. Sounds like a good winter project though.

072318e.gif
 
tsptalk said:
Got them! I'm not ready to deal with another order right now so hopefully the price of silver behaves for a while. Sounds like a good winter project though.

072318e.gif
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Well it's not quite winter yet, but silver is now at $14.60 per Troy Ounce!

Might want to move up the schedule ?!?

Hey, just as an idea....can the die be modified to include Burro's initials in the corner?
If not too expensive, that would be a nice memorial. Seeing how much he really enjoyed them!
 
You're probably right. Now to find someone who will use our dies to make the rounds. Any suggestions or names to throw out?
 
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