TSP board to limit interfund transfers

[EW_ret]

...The intent is that you can always DCA into the G fund or dump everything in quickly in case of emergency. After all, that's the free kitty for Treasury to borrow from. However, if one of your first two transfers is into G, that still counts as one of the three for the month. You can always transfer IN, but not OUT. Tom Trabucco and G. Long even gave examples in interviews on Federal News Radio (I think this is where I heard them).

I concur with your interpretation of the new proposed rule up until your statement "... still counts as one of three for the month." I believe you meant to say, "... one of two for the month." This rule is what is posted in the register and on the TSP.gov site. The letters confuses the issue because it also states, "... no more than three IFTs a month" allowed for the "frequent traders".

What do the letters mean by "no more than three IFTs per month"? It means the FRTIB is applying a different set of "interim rules" to the "frequent traders". Notice that the third paragraph of first warning letter (1-24-2008) states in it's final sentence, " ... and (2) interim measures designed to lower trade volume in the meantime." It's just easier to record the IFTs at this time, rather the money flow direction for the IFTs. My understanding is that the "interim rules" are no more that three IFTs per month until the new automated system is in place. In my opinion this will be until at least the end of May. So if you received that first warning letter, beware you are allowed at most three IFTs a month until the new automated restrictions are in place. Only then will you be allowed unlimited IFTs back into G fund, after the first two IFTs.

 

[Guest2]

Well, It seems like yesterday that I was "Identified" as a frequent trader!
But it was yesterday, that I got my Certified Letter which says that I can
no longer make IFT's via the web or thriftline. They gave me (3) TSP-50's
and left me feeling helpless and depressed. Why? Because I believe this is
going to kill my retirement goals and aspirations. As Law Enforcement, my
life expectancy is short enough as it is, now, the little time I have left to
enjoy a tid-bit of retirement was all but taken away.

I've done all that I could do concerning Petitions, Faxes, Politics, Unions
and I'm left feeling that someone forgot the butter when the TSP Board
forced me to my knees. How shameful. Legal Action? I don't know, I don't
have the knowledge, contacts or resources to even think I can help fix
this mess, no less hope for someone to work Pro Bono. If I'm sounding a
bit down, then this entry is not doing my feelings justice.

If anyone has anything positive to share, it couldn't be more timely.
March 31st, 2008 is all the time I have left to manage my money as
I see fit. Then, It's up to the man upstairs. I hope he has a 5 year
Bull Market already lined up for us. Thanks for allowing me to slobber
on this thread for a minute.
:embarrest:

 

[Braveheart]

I HAVE AN ENTIRE THREAD OF INFORMATION TITLE UNDER HILLARY CLINTON YOU MIGHT WANT TO START HERE CLICK ON THIS LINK

August 20, 2003

SENATE GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS CHAIRMAN COLLINS LAUNCHES INQUIRY INTO FEDERAL RETIREMENT THRIFT INVESTMENT BOARD, AMS CONTRACT
Concerned About Federal Dollars Wasted on Failed Software System

“It is outrageous that a federal agency spent tens of millions of dollars in retirement savings on a system that it couldn’t even use,” said Collins, whose committee has jurisdiction over the federal contracting process. “That’s an example of wasteful spending that should never be repeated.”

http://hsgac.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fu...&Affiliation=R

 

[Guest2]

You are not limited to snail mail until April 1, and there are no limits on the number of IFT's. After April 1 you may still make UNLIMITED daily IFT's via snail mail until the 3 per month limits go into effect (get more forms). Which won't happen until sometime in May, if ever. Don't give up. As James suggests, send your complaint as a comment to FRTIB. Send it to your Congressmen. Send it to HILLARY. It could mean a couple million votes for her. See the Hillary thread. She's proposing a TSP for EVERYONE. I'm not a fan, but she may be our best bet to get the ball rolling on an investigation - it just takes ONE Congressperson to request an investigation to STOP FRTIB.

Hillary, hummm, go figure. Thanks for your words of encouragement.
Let's make 7% tomarrow,,,, I'll put away my Prozac,,,, (LOL).

 

[TSPinWV]

I just sent this letter to my representative in Congress. Not much original content here - regular readers will see a lot of cut-and-paste, BUT IT WORKS! And if I can do it, OTHERS CAN, TOO!!
______________________________________________________

Subject: Temporary Injunction Against TSP

Dear Congresswoman XXXXX,

The Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board (FRTIB) has a proposed ruling in the Federal Register to change 5 CFR Part 1601 to limit the number of interfund transfer requests to two per month. The basis for their actions, although documented in length, is based on incorrect information. I REQUEST A FULL CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION AND A TEMPORARY INJUNCTION UNTIL THE INVESTIGATION IS COMPLETE!!

Docket Title: Participants Choices of TSP Funds
Document ID: FRTIB-2008-0004-0001
Federal Register Number: E8-04776
Date Posted 03/10/2008 Comments Due 04/09/2008

As I expressed to you in my letter of 4 February 2008, I am completely opposed to the Board’s actions because they are unwarranted! There are other options available to the FRTIB, but they seem uninterested in anyone’s ideas except their own.

The Numbers Just Don’t Add Up:
The Board’s January 2008 meeting minutes included data that showed that over the entire year, the costs of interfund trading decreased from $15,229,242 in 2006, to just $13,880,098 in 2007. Previously, the Thrift Board's Chief Investment Officer Tracey Ray warned Board Members that action was needed, because she projected that 2007 trading costs would rise. She told the Board in October that expenses would be higher in 2007, saying she projected frequent trading activity would cause costs to rise by 70%.

Instead, trading costs have actually decreased by more than 10%. This is in part because of increased interfund transfer activity, and an exemption from SEC regulations that the fund's agent, Barclays' Bank, obtained in August. The exemption allows Barclays to borrow shares, and trade Exchange traded Funds (ETF's) rather than strictly buying and selling shares.

Congresswoman Xxxxx, the data is out there for anyone to see! The attempt to restrict interfund transfers, where they will restrict people’s control over their own money, especially in these turbulent markets, is an idea that needs to go back to the drawing board. Most Federal employees and Military personnel do not understand the inherent financial risk of the Thrift Board's proposal.

History is Attempting to Repeat Itself:
The Thrift Savings Plan Open Elections Act of 2004, sponsored by Senator Susan Collins of Maine, eliminated the existing restrictions of only one interfund transfer per month and allowed participants to make an interfund transfer on any business day of the year. At the time, Senator Collins remarked that this would “give employees more control over their investment decisions.” Senator Collins’ legislation had the support of the Employee Thrift Advisory Council and many federal employee unions. Now, instead of expanding the investment options and services within TSP, the Thrift Board is proposing to take a giant step back into the Dark Ages by restricting the number of allowable interfund transfers and thereby giving employees less control over their investment decisions.

Congresswoman Xxxxx, we have what we have today because of outstanding Congressional involvement. I am asking you to get involved at this critical point, to protect the interests of Government Employees and Military Personnel! We need your help!

As for excessive costs, the TSP Board already has a history of mismanaging funds:
July 07, 2004 -- Senate Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Susan Collins (R-ME) and Ranking Member Joe Lieberman (D-CT) today released the findings of a months-long Committee investigation into a failed computer-programming project that wasted $36 million in federal retirement assets. The investigation examined the problems surrounding the four-year contract between the Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board (FRTIB) and American Management Systems (AMS) to develop a record-keeping system for participants and beneficiaries of the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP). The software developed by AMS -- over-budget and behind schedule -- proved to be almost useless, forcing the FRTIB to enter into a new contract with another company in 2001 and spend an additional $33 million to develop a new system.

In their letter of findings to Chairman Saul, Senators Collins and Lieberman pointed out that the TSP Board largely avoided accountability for their share of the project’s failure. After Committee staff interviewed witnesses, reviewed thousands of documents, and studied reports prepared by outside observers, the Senators reached the following conclusions:

-- Much of the time and money the Board spent on the project from 1998 to 2001 was wasted. TSP participants and beneficiaries should have received the benefits of a new record keeping system beginning in May 2000, but the new system was not implemented until the summer of 2003. TSP plan participants and beneficiaries had their retirement accounts debited $36 million dollars to pay the costs of the failed contract.

To prevent future failures of similar projects, Senators Collins and Lieberman recommended that qualified staff be assigned to oversee such projects; that independent experts should be consulted, and that the Board use better risk management practices and contract structures.


The Board is once again taking actions, at significant expense to shareholders, based on their own opinions and assessments. WHERE ARE THE INDEPENDENT EXPERTS? WHERE IS THE OVERSIGHT STAFF?


I will submit my comments to the proposed change, as provided for in the Federal Register. However, is seems very clear that the FTRIB has already made up their minds about this action.
Selected individuals are now receiving letters stating that they are limited to only making interfund transfers by mail. They are no longer allowed to make changes by Internet or over the phone. THE PROPOSED RULING HASN’T BEEN APPROVED YET, AND THEY ARE ALREADY IMPLEMENTING LIMITATIONS ON SOME EMPLOYEES!

I look to hearing from you soon so that we can fight this unfair action together.

Sincerely,

_____________________________

 

[nnuut]

Excellent Letter TSPinWV. Welcome to the Message Board. Mind if I steal a bit of that letter? Great stuff. Giv'm HELL!
Norman

 

[troxel]

Follow the rules and still got whacked

I thought I was following their TSP rules, but apparently not. It’s now time to make some calls to Washington DC to get my congressman and Senator’s attention. I just hope they will put some light on this injustice.

Here too!!!! I thought I was following their (stupid) rules and I received the same friggen letter.

I am steamed.

As I type this I am on hold to the TSP call center. I asked the fellow to look up my transactions and we read the letter together over the phone. He also did not see a problem with my trades and he agreed that I was following the rules - he is trying find a supervisor.

The supervisor came back and agreed that I was doing my trades in accordance with the rules. He said there is nothing he can do about that!!!!!!!! He said I will have to call the board at 202-942-1460 and plead my case.

The board is incompetent in that they have not conveyed their rules to the participants nor to their own call center.

One other thought. Why is there not a voting position on the board that represents the stakeholders?

 

[TSPinWV]

Re: Follow the rules and still got whacked

Here too!!!! I thought I was following their (stupid) rules and I received the same friggen letter.

I am steamed.

As I type this I am on hold to the TSP call center. I asked the fellow to look up my transactions and we read the letter together over the phone. He also did not see a problem with my trades and he agreed that I was following the rules - he is trying find a supervisor.

The supervisor came back and agreed that I was doing my trades in accordance with the rules. He said there is nothing he can do about that!!!!!!!! He said I will have to call the board at 202-942-1460 and plead my case.

The board is incompetent in that they have not conveyed their rules to the participants nor to their own call center.

One other thought. Why is there not a voting position on the board that represents the stakeholders?

You might try what has been suggested before in this Forum: Document the moves you would have made, and consult with your attorney about how to recoup the losses on what you would have earned.

I'm with you on the representation part! Hopefully www.tspshareholder.org will get our foot in the door to get that fixed for the future.

 

[jon]

Regarding additional board membership see interesting proposal/post by Big Mac dated 020408, the one on long term action.

Before addressing the following concern, it is not intended as a criticism toward anyone and I appreciate the intellignece and skills by so many who contribute to tsp talk(tspt). My basic concern about tspt is the actual vs potential size of the audience that even knows about tspt. Do we have a way to measure the average daily number of users who visit tspt? I guess it is between 1000 - 2000 daily. From what little I can determine I would be very surprised if the number has been over 5,000 to 10,000 in a day.

If these numbers are accurate and the tsp has about 3.8 million members/participants and our goals were to help our constituents, then as one of the members ending post quotes is, Houston we have a problem. What is important about ratio of 2,000 tspt users divided by 3,800,000 tsp participants? I would like to believe that 2,000 fully committed members can influence the management of an organization approaching 4 million members, but I do not believe 2000 or even 10,000 unelected or unrepresentative members will have much influence on tsp management or on Congress. But truthfully, the issue is not of 2,000 committed activists, is it? What is the chance that even 500 of us will send letters to tsp mgt or Congress?

Hopefully, there will be at least a handfull of replies regarding my presumptions. If my numbers are anywhere close to accurate, then I hope we can develope a broader discussion of our methods, goals and strategies.

 

[troxel]

Anyone getting one of these letters is restricted to snail mail UNLIMITED IFT's from April 1 until whenever the 3 IFT/month LIMITS are implemented. FRTIB thinks this will be in May. This puts your funds in jeopardy for an indefinite period of time which is a breach of fiduciary duty. The lockout is also a breach of fiduciary duty since both the interim rule and proposed rule state that UNLIMITED transfers to the G fund are available AT ANY TIME. Tom Trabucco and Greg Long also both stated in interviews that transfers to G for safety would continue to be electronic even if you had exceeded the limit.

I just had a frustrating and madding call to the board. I talked to Keven Laird and he informed me that my trading will be restricted because I made more than three trades in February - I had made two initial trades from G->I and then three subsequent trades from I->G.

He said there are two plans the interim and proposed: the interim rule does not allow UNLIMITED transfers to G.

I asked why in the hell would have two different plans and implement them differently, where is the logic?! He had no answer and offered no logic. I told him have two plans and not clearly delineating those as separate plans will lead to unnecessary confusion (and anger). No response.

Further I told him I talked to the TSP call center and they believed the rules as I had interpreted them also and agreed that my account should not be restricted.

I told him that I and others have attempted to follow the rules in good faith (even though I disagree) and we are still getting our accounts taken away.

After the call I went to the TSP website clicked on "What's New", then "2007 INTERIM RULES" announced which brings up a PDF that states

"... the Agency likely will amend its regulations to permit two interfund transfers per calendar month with subsequent unlimited interfund transfers only into the G Fund."

This is inconsistent and confusing.

I have a request of the participants. I am writing a letter to the board and Keven Laird and I am looking for any references that indicate that in the interim trading guidelines to G are UNLIMITED after the two initial trades.

 

[CountryBoy]

Well I got my “I’ve been a bad boy and can’t play on the internet after March 31” letter. I wished I’d have gotten before noon and I would’ve put 50% in the S fund, but I wasn’t sure about what would happen or if I’d get stuck there, until snail mail hit. I'll still make a move or 2 bfore the deadline.

I don’t know about ya’ll and how you were raised, but where I’m from anytime a man reneges on a deal or does something to hurt you or yours (quality of retirement), well that guy would get a good a$$ whoppin at the very least. I guess it’s a good thing these folks can hide behind the phone and anonymity.

A pox on them. I hope what goes around comes around on some of these folks. Well I'd better stop here before I say anything else, cause I'm real PO'd about the entire thing.

I had already sent my letter via mail and fax to the address Paladin gave us.

CB

 

[jon]

Anidoc,

Thanks for acknowleding my concerns about influencing tsp mgt and Congress. Most of our posts pass by like ticker trades or tricker treaters- with the blink of an eye. I hope Tom and others will become aware of my post and concerns. Tsp talk market penetration, market share and their consequences deserve serious discussion among the key players and the entire membership. Pending receipt of user volume data, I suspect our future effectiveness greatly depends on aggressively moving from passive to robust active marketing.

Thanks

 

[weatherweenie]

Looks like I'm the latest letter victim. I had a delivery notice in the mail today. I don't plan on signing for it. However, I doubt it will make any difference. Call me skeptical, but I am guessing that if I refuse to sign for the letter the TSP will still restrict my account.

 

[683KEU]

I just refused delivery on mine about 5 minutes ago.

Our mail delivery person wanted to know why, so I gave her the "Reader's Digest" version of the situation.....she didn't know any of this was going on with the TSP.

So much for the Board's mandate to educate....

Now I'll have to decide whether or not to go all in before March 31st or not as my last electronic transfer until they sort out the computer programming to limit everyone to two transfers a month.

Maybe I should have signed for it to get the TSP-50 forms......hmmmm......

 

[troxel]

First off, he's wrong and he needs to go read both rules. I've provided the Interim Rule below.

I called the board staff member back and showed him the links off the tsp website and he had to agree that it was confusing - (actually it is not confusing it says specifically UNLIMITED into G). I was following the rules the had communicated.

I told him the board is incompetent for being unable to communicate to participants and even to the TSP call center employees - he was sorry I thought that - I am sorry it is true.

Nevertheless my trades over the three in February stand and therefore my ability to make internet transfers will be disabled on March 31.

I could petition the board in a long and lengthy process.

I also asked why go the all the trouble to disable accounts if the software to implement their rules is going to be active in April. Well April is probably an over optimistic date and the actual implement will probably be much later.

 

[Aspiration]

I have sent my comment to the proposed rule. I do not know how the FRTIB does their dockets for comments, but I would try to include identifying information from the Federal Register notice if possible. I gave the Federal Register cite and a number I found at the bottom of the Federal Register notice.

 

[Braveheart]

Here is where anyone who contacts the TSP is wrong
NEVER EVER ADMIT WRONGDOING !!!

1. Be direct and state that no one is above the Law and this board will be subject to a congressional investigation. If you live in New York or Texas and have a Legal Representative you are allowed to record the entire call as long as one party that would be you agree to record the conversation.
(Roger Clemens)

2. You want names and not a form letter explaining what was your alleged violation because you are being targeted and thus you are now a member of a protected group under Federal Law. They Falsely Claim you violated the TSP Board Regulations but there is no evidence except some computer that cost 100 Million and they claim has been hacked, needs a 15 Million upgrade because of incorrect information and most importantly WHO IS WATCHING THEM? WHO DO THEY ANSWER TO AT THE TSP?

3. Don't be nice to these people they want people to beg for them to stop their Violation and Descrimination Based Upon the Fact that a Sample Group was targeted their reputations are now tarnished because they will be forever known as the 3000 who allegedly stopped unlimited trading for 4 Million TSP users. That would mean that 3000 will somehow blame themselves and this has caused stress and a disruption to the lives of the innocent 3,997,000 thanks to them. That is simply unfair to label and tarnish this group to hide the TSP real agenda which is to blame anyone and everyone for their own mismanagement where they were already found GUILTY by the Senate.

4. If you call use a phone where you have copies of the phone records (cell phone) the names and title of who you spoke to and ask for their Supervisor. Let the person know at the end of the conversation that you will procede to take your necessary steps and their name and the phone conversation will be part of the record. (FOR THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORT) you must use those exact words.

5. You want your name removed from this bogus list immediately and notify them you will also be asking for a Freedom of Information Request and a record of this conversation had better be included in that request.

6. Don't swear you will probably be recorded but don't ever admit going over a limit they set - THERE IS NO FRIGGIN LIMIT just on a targeted group for Harassment and Abuse of Power and Authority. They the TSP has violated the Law and will all be out of a job on January 9, 2009 you can take that to the bank.

 

[Aggie76]

Sorry if this is posted some where else, looks as if the number is down to 549 now.
From Government Executive, March 17, 2008
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=39537&dcn=todaysnews


"Of the 3,500 participants who received letters, however, 549 exceeded the interim three-per-month rule in February, Long said. TSP officials sent follow-up letters to those participants, requiring them to trade by mail starting in April, he added.
"I think the 549 people generally are not thrilled about this, but our best interest is to look out for all 4 million [participants]," Long said."

 

[BlueMax]

A qote form GovExec, this morning;

TSP officials sent letters to the frequent traders in January, urging them to scale back their interfund transfers to three per month. The letters generated some negative responses, but also a fair number of supportive messages, and even a few apologies from participants who did not realize their actions were causing problems, said TSP Executive Director Gregory Long.

Are they for real?

 

[TSPinWV]

CONGRESSIONAL UPDATE: I just spoke with a staff member in my Congresswoman's office. Here's what he shared with me:

- Senator Collins is currently (3:00 EST) being briefed by the TSP reps. Her staff will have some indication of the Senator's view of this after the briefing is over.

- He spoke with the Oversight Committee (Subcommittee on Federal Workforce, Postal Service, and the District of Columbia).
* The Majority members (Dems) are quite satisfied with the actions the TSP Board is taking. They aren't interested in the facts.
* The Minority group (Rep) are in a "wait and see" mode.
BLUF: No one is doing anything to slow down or interfere.

- I raised the issue of the potential violation of Federal Code due to the TSP Board already limiting interfund transfers for those "frequent offenders". He will attempt to get a ruling from counsel on this matter.
**I'M PUSHING FOR A TEMPORARY INJUNCTION. IT'S NOT EASY**

His advice was for us to contact the sub-committe members directly.:notrust:
Danny K. Davis, Chairman
Kenny Marchant, Ranking Member

Anyone in MAINE should contact Senator Collins office IMMEDIATELY!! by phone, e-mail, fax, any and all means possible. This appears to be our best possible foot-in-the-door on this issue.

I'll keep you posted as I get more info.