TSP board to limit interfund transfers

On another note - has anybody seen this article from FedSmith today?

http://www.fedsmith.com/article/1431/

"Market Timing and Your TSP

I read that. I fund is fund is lower now then when those guys sold.

I can say Ralph Smith has a nice hat and cool glasses, maybe a shade to dark, but cool.

I guess I am just a lucky monkey. Some one should tell all the stock traders at the DOW, S&P and all the other exchanges that the more they trade the more they lose.

Note to self:
; Don't read Fedsmith.
 
I came to TSP-talk to learn about my retirement fund, see what others are doing and find out how to maximize my account. I dabbled in stocks a few years ago but lost interest. I have been following TSP-talk since Mar 2006. I actually regained an interest and even found myself better educated about our retirement fund than hundreds of other CBP, ICE, FAMS/TSA, FBI, BP employees where I work. (Which doesn't say much)
Now I read this article above and others that we are likeday traders. If I am only making an educated guess about what might happen tomorrow, and only have the ability to make a change the day before (before 12 est.), how exactly is this day trading?

Has anyone followed up on the issue with L-fund reallocating everyday?
 
Stephen, hopefully you'll write about the pitfalls of being illiquid (as in 2 transfers a month). The level of your article and this editorial are insulting. In the past 10 years, the most costly period for TSP participants was when the tech bubble burst -- when TSP was limited to 1 transfer a month, and when people couldn't get defensive or work in asset allocation methods to prevent major bleeding (most sound financial advisors may not tell you this although they practice it -- but it takes more than 1 or 2 transfers a month). Please do your research and provide the numbers on both sides of the fence.

Yes, a couple of people in the office I'm in had just about all of their money in C and could not get it out. They lost a lot of money since the ride up didn't happen for a while.
 
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Yes, a couple of people in the office I'm in had just about all of their money in C and could not get it out. Lost a lot of money since the ride up didn't happen for a while.
I am not for the changes, but the changes would allow you to move to G at any time. I held my postion for the entire ride down and back up years later, so I am no fan of people who say buy and hold is the optimum plan.
 
I am not for the changes, but the changes would allow you to move to G at any time.

This is true Talltimber, but you could only make multiple moves into the G-fund if you only moved small percentages, i.e.

You will be allowed to move into F, C, S, I only twice. But you could move into G-fund in percentages until that equals 100% or the next month rolls around. And that is only if they stick to this bad decision.
 
TSP board Chairman Andrew Saul is on the board at Cache Inc:
-4.95% today
-44.5% YTD

If you own this stock you had better check your parachute, I am sure Saul has checked his.
 
From fedsmith article above (comments section)

TSP Restriction
Statistician
DOD
Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 PM

Post Reply
The half million participants on the L 2040, L2030, L2020, L2010 L Income daily Interfund Transfers are the ones causing the fund management cost increase and not the "3000" members who wants to protect their retirement funds. Put the blame where it belongs...

Re: TSP Restriction
manager
DoD
Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:29 PM

Your note sounds reasonable but isn't factual. The L funds are rebalanced each day as one trade and there are not several million transactions. The result of the frequent individual trades in the I fund cited by the TSP are adding a few million in costs that are then paid by everyone--not just those that think they are benefitting from the frequent trades.

I am sure that the TSP could set up a system to allow each person to pay for the cost of the trades but they would also have to account for the extra millions kept in reserve because of the complexity of trading in the I fund. I would guess the actual cost of these would be in the neighborhood of $50 per trade--plus the costs of setting up the programming to handle the load and the transaction

*****

1) Who is right?

2) If the DOD manager is right, and if they do L fund reallocation in "one trade," why couldn't they do all transactions in, and or out, of any fund, in one trade?
 
All the transfers to and from the I fund are bundled up and executed as one trade, same as the L fund. This fed smith guy is bad. Its no wonder he hasn't had a positive experience trading frequently.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talltimber
but the changes would allow you to move to G at any time.

This lays the foundation for increasing the chance of getting whipsawed.

Good point, and whats worse is at the start of the month there will be a huge pentup demand for trades that more agile investors can capitalize on.
 
1- who is right? Both have points to make.
L funds DO contribute to costs, but not much. Again, it is a matter of perspective here. We are talking $25 million in costs per year on a fund balance of 230 BILLION dollars. The total costs are less per share now, even with these supposed costs, than they were in the late 1990's under the old system. Then is cost around 10 basis points (one tenth of a percent per year) to administer all of TSP. Today it costs less than 1 basis point per year, except for the S and I funds, which run around 6 to 8 basis points. This year, the TOTAL of all funds should come out to between 2 and 3 basis points.

To compare to your average mutual fund, those run around 60 basis points per year. We are 1/20th of the cost of a typical mutual fund.

2- the DO do all transactions as a single trade. They know, by 2:30, how much money needs to be traded for that day (for F, C and S,) and overnight for the I. They execute a single order to Barclays to buy or sell the set number of shares.

The problem comes from the Fair Value estimate they do at the close. You can't be sure of what the overseas market will do overnight, so if they guess wrong it costs.

They guessed wrong on March 5th, and the TSP MADE an $8 million dollar IN TSP's FAVOR.

They guessed wrong again the next month on one day, and roughly the same amount went the other way.

The problem isn't with trading.

the problem is their Fair Value calculations, a left-over from the days when they only traded once per quarter.

If they repriced at 7 am. the following morning, instead of posting prices at 7 pm. the night before, they would eliminate the need to "Fair Value", and could use actual trade data. That would eliminate all of the cost.

Don't limit trades-

Limit the use of Fair Value calculations.

Change the share pricing time to 7a.m. the next morning.
 
I wonder if the free Trade(s) into the G fund has anything to do with the Govs ability to borrow from that fund.

I also want to be the first to coin the phrase '3000 Tspartans'.
 
I wonder if the free Trade(s) into the G fund has anything to do with the Govs ability to borrow from that fund.

I also want to be the first to coin the phrase '3000 Tspartans'.

Wow.

Nice.

Can I license that from you?

We're the

"3000 TSPartans....."
 
James - given your explanation above, unless I'm misunderstanding something, all that rebalancing of the L funds could amount to even more than what 3000 people are trading in the I fund in any given day? If what I surmise, from what you said, is true, then shouldn't there be more complaints about the cost of rebalancing L funds??
 
I wonder if the free Trade(s) into the G fund has anything to do with the Govs ability to borrow from that fund.

I also want to be the first to coin the phrase '3000 Tspartans'.

LOL......You beat me to it with this.....'3000 Tspartans' thingy.

I was just thinking it the other day.

Good one for sure. :D
 
I don't have actual data on the amount attributable to L funds, and the amount attributable to the 3000.


I'll start doing some research on that.

But it is important to understand that the REAL issue here is the use of "Fair Value" guessing, instead of actual prices that shares trade at. That must be, and will continue to be, the problem that the TSP Board needs to fix.

If they fix that, it solves both the L fund problem and the TSP share trade problem.

Look for more information soon on a new website, which several of us are constructing as we speak.

Note:

Everybody please go to the thread "What YOU can do to help", and start making phone calls, and writing letters. Do it TO NIGHT. Do it TOMMORROW.

Make YOUR voices heard.

We CAN change the world.

Together.

The "3000 Tspartans.".
 
Everyone- read the thread on "Things you can do to fight back"

Then do them.

First, before you do that. Dial this number.

Tonight. And again tomorrow:

1-877-968-3778

That is the TSP Thrift Line.
Burn up the phone lines, and tell them you do NOT want them to limit trades.

One voice is not enough.

EVERYONE must do it.

EVERYONE.

YOU MUST DO IT.

MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD.

Now.

Pick up the phone, and dail: 1-877-968-3778
 
Here is a dandy from the Madam of the House..



Madam speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to put a Windfall Tax on all stock market profits (including Retirement fund, 401Ks and Mutual Funds! Alas, it is true - all to help the 12 Million Illegal Immigrants and other unemployed Minorities!




Nancy Pelosi condemned the new record highs of the stock market as "just another example of Bush policies helping the rich get richer". "First Bush cut taxes for the rich and the economy has rebounded with new record low unemployment rates, which only means wealthy employers are getting even wealthier at the expense of the underpaid working class".

She went on to say "Despite the billions of dollars being spent in Iraq
[FONT='Arial', 'sans-serif']our economy is still strong and government tax revenues are at all time highs. What this really means is that business is exploiting the war effort and working Americans, just to put money in their own pockets". [/font][FONT='Arial', 'sans-serif'][/font]

[FONT='Arial', 'sans-serif'] When questioned about recent stock market highs she responded "Only the rich benefit from these record highs. Working Americans, welfare recipients, the unemployed and minorities are not sharing in these obscene record highs" There is no question these windfall profits and income created by the Bush administration need to be taxed at 100% rate and those dollars redistributed to the poor and working class". Profits from the stock market do not reward the hard work of our working class who, by their hard work, are responsib le for generating these corporate profits that create stock market profits for the rich. We in congress will need to address this issue to either tax these profits or to control the stock market to prevent this unearned income t o flow to the rich." [/font]

[FONT='Arial', 'sans-serif'] &n! bsp;&nbs p;When asked about the fact that over 80% of all Americans have investments in mutual funds, ret irement funds, 401Ks, and the stock market she replied "That may be true, but probably only 5% account for 90% of all these investment dollars. That's just more "trickle down" economics claiming that if a corporation is successful that everyone from the CEO to the floor sweeper benefit from higher wages and job security which is ridiculous". "How much of this 'trickle down' ever gets to the unemployed and minorities in our county? None, and that's the tragedy of these stock market highs." [/font]

[FONT='Arial', 'sans-serif'] "We democrats are going to address this issue after the election when we take control of the congress. We will return to the 60% to 80% tax rates on the rich and we will be able to take at least 30% of all current lower income tax payers off the rolls and increase government income substantially." We need to work toward the goal of equalizing income in our country and at the same time limiting the amount the rich can invest." [/font]

When asked how these new tax dollars would be spent, she replied : "We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemployed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in our country who need our help along with millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windf all profits taxes could go a long ways toguarantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as 'Americans'."
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/pelosi.asp


:mad::mad::mad::mad:

High tax rates have always been the Achille's heel of IRA's. When the budget deficits become unmanageable the only solution will be to either raise tax rates or cut social security benefits. That's why the sooner we get the money out of the TSP into other accounts the better.
 
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This article by Ralph Smith was on FedSmith.com today. He spends most of his time telling us that market timing is not possible, and that we are deluding ourselves if we think it can work, yada yada. I'm really getting tired of this paternalistic garbage.......I'm not asking for advice on how to manage my money (I can handle that, thank you), just the freedom to do it!!! (which we now have, and want to retain). Here's the link to the article:

http://www.fedsmith.com/article/1431/
 
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