The Tracker and Paid Services

[tsptalk]

Now that we have people signed up and paying for two more services, we have to approach the problem of people posting their IFT's in the tracker that are just mirroring another system or service - whether that service is on TSP Talk or not.

We went through this when RevShark started up, but the response to the new systems was much higher and it's more likely that more than a few message board members are subscribers.

Consider this the first official warning to not enter your transfers into the trackers if you are follwing another service.

But I realize something has to change. The dilemma for me is, I don't want to penalize paying subscribers, but for obvious reasons we can not display your IFT's. My solution was to see if we can get ocean (or myself if ocean trusts me to play with his code , to add an indicator that would identify paying subscribers. These members would have their returns displayed, but not their allocation. And if possible, only have their returns displayed at the end of each week.

The other issue is the prizes. We give away small prizes each month for the top 3 returns and we don't think it is really fair for those who are just copying a service's IFT's or another member's, to accept a prize. The prizes were meant for those who do their own due diligence.

Again, that penalizes a paying subscriber, which we don't want to do - but you see the dilemma.

Perhaps we can have 2 categories of prizes. Those who are using the services, and those who are not. We can pay prizes for each. I realize not everyone will follow every move of a paid service, but the problem is with having to watch the transactions to make sure it is not happening.

The key issues are:
-We don't want to jeopardize the integrity of a paid service by inadvertently giving away the information here.
- We also don't want to penalize paying subscribers
- We don't want to have to play detective by watching everyone's transactions to see if anyone is "cheating" (too harsh a word).

Anyway, any comments on that, yea or nay, or ideas to keep thing rolling smoothly, please post away.

Thanks!

 

[SkyPilot]

Those who are subscribers and make gains so as to qualify as winners have already recieved their reward.

 

[camper65]

Well, let me put it this way, sometimes I'll go with Ebb, and sometimes I won't. (There are no sacred cows!) What then?

 

[Frixxxx]

Those who are subscribers and make gains so as to qualify as winners have already recieved their reward.

Agreed. I am here to make my fund grow for retirement. I can't tell you how to run your site, but I think the paid subscribers are not here for t-shirts and pens. Hide my IFTs, I paid for them. Hide my stats from everyone else - your call. I can't tell you the $ of information I've recieved since I have been here on this site. But hey, I got 23 years til retirement and I just wonder who's going to run the site when the heavy hitters like you are no longer willing/able to do it.

 

[GGal]

Paid subscribers should not be included in anything competitive.

I'm sure paid subscribers would greatly appreciate having their returns tracked so they can see where they are.

JMHO

GGAL

 

[nnuut]

"I'm sure paid subscribers would greatly appreciate having their returns tracked so they can see where they are."
XACTLY!!!!

 

[SkyPilot]

Agreed. I am here to make my fund grow for retirement. I can't tell you how to run your site, but I think the paid subscribers are not here for t-shirts and pens. Hide my IFTs, I paid for them. Hide my stats from everyone else - your call. I can't tell you the $ of information I've recieved since I have been here on this site. But hey, I got 23 years til retirement and I just wonder who's going to run the site when the heavy hitters like you are no longer willing/able to do it.

There's no guarantees in life... someone will step up to the plate.

Seems like plenty of folks out there right now who are operating TSP message board/blog/orums.

Not anything as good as this, but overtime they will develop. Maybe Mike Causey will get in the game?

 

[ocean]

How about this, as Tom suggested, the paid subscribers who signed up with the autotracker will have their latest three allocations, daily and weekly returns blocked and YTD, MTD, QTD will be viewable. Similar to EbbChart and other paid services now.

If paid members do not want to be tracked at all, simply PM EW to delete it from the tracker.

Non paid members on the tracker will be shown just like what we are doing now.

Tom,

I will work on this piece of code in the next few days. You are welcome to work with me on future coding or create your own new features. In the meanwhile, you may want to have a list of the pay members who are on the tracker ready so I can add them in once the code is done.

Also feel free to browse around all the module I had created and try to follow the programming logic and you will be catching up in no time. I have 5 more years to go for my retirement, looks like the tracker will be here for a long time and eventually you will have to take over for this.

BTW, to catch up with my returns, I too may have to follow EbbChart myself.

Ocean

 

[ATCJeff]

What about the members who are paid subscribers, but use the systems for information only?

 

[James48843]

Put a seperate autotracker database within the members only section? Is that possible?

 

[FundSurfer]

How about this, as Tom suggested, the paid subscribers who signed up with the autotracker will have their latest three allocations, daily and weekly returns blocked and YTD, MTD, QTD will be viewable. Similar to EbbChart and other paid services now.

I think this makes great sense. In terms of the monthly prizes, I would think that if you are mostly following a service then maybe you should not be eligible. If however you are just using it as info and sometimes following and sometimes not, then really you'd be doing what a lot of professionals do.

 

[EW_ret]

When thinking about any change to the Automated Tracker, please follow the "simple solution" is the best. That simple solution is to follow rule six; do not track any member who pays for a TSP service. If you pay for any TSP service you are not in the tracker. This is the simple solution. We do not have the resources to differentiate between those that follow sometimes, those that follow all the time but use different funds, and those that follow but go to G fund safety and never the F fund. This just complicates the tracking work, and does not eliminate the policing of violators.

Every member must ask themselves, why do I want to be in the Automated Tracker? If you want to grow your TSP account, you follow your own strategy or pay for a service and follow it. You should really track your own investment performance, and do not need to be in any tracker. You use a financial program like Quicken or Microsoft Money to track you investment returns.

If we do not adhere to rule six, then "keep it simple" and block all fund allocations and returns of every member who pay for a TSP service. They can see there own fund allocations and returns, the paid services returns allowed, and other members who do not pay for a service. The tracker software becomes more complex if you only block certain returns and just the last three IFT moves.

 

[FUTURESTRADER]

roger that, EW. I'm subscribing to ebb, tho not follow 100%. I won't be posting for tracker anymore, so delete me from the tracker if it's convenient. A double edged sword for Tom, I'd think, since the premium services will cut down on the posts, and most likely the traffic overall, but I'm sure he priced all that in. Thanks for your efforts. GL to all

 

[SkiUtah]

IMHO...the tracking and prizes are not needed for paid subscribers, but what is needed is their own message board....where discussions can take place.

Full disclosure - I joined Ebb for one month. Seems if you join a paid subscriptioin, you lose the ability to discuss and get creative on the MB.

How about a seperate MB for the paid subscriptions services...then roll some of the subscription revenue to you Tom...

 

[James48843]

Every member must ask themselves, why do I want to be in the Automated Tracker?

Like many others here, there are SEVERAL main reasons I want to be in the tracker:

1. It provides information to me to see what others are doing, and what kind of results they get when I watch their moves, and then see who are the leaders so I can then visit their account chat threads and here and learn about their decision making process.

2. It lets me see quick and easily how I am doing compared to others. That is the fun part. When I make a bad decision and it goes south, we can all look at each other and joke about it, and feel each other's pain. And when it goes good, we can celebrate with each other , and talk about what we are going to do with that new money.

No- the autotracker and message boards are both intergral parts of this site, and we need ot find a way to make them happen - behind closed doors if necessary- but still make it work.

My 2 cents.

 

[EW_ret]

I see how everyone moves, or say they move their TSP funds. I see some members moving funds around daily to feed the gambler impulse. Most just want to make their TSP account grow large enough to retire early.

I added myself to the Automated Tracker to test the L fund tracking. I anticipate removing myself at end of year. I am not in the Weekly WebTracker since I became the Tracker last year. I receive multiple paid services, but do not always follow the advice. I use Quicken to track all my investment performance so I do not need to be in the tracker. I visit TSPTalk more now that I am retired and I became the Tracker because I had the time. Visiting TSPTalk allows interaction with others that I miss from work.

 

[camper65]

Rules??? (Must rules be set in concrete?)
I can’t see why those who pay for service should be restricted from partaking in the automatic Tracker?
For myself, I see Ebb’s system as a tool and have no intention of following it to the letter.
I do however want to see how my performance is doing compared to other members. There is something to be learned there. Something to be gained. If you must draw your oz. of blood, denote those members who Pay for service and restrict them from prizes and rewards. It seems to me that those members who are NOT on a pay for service program would also want to know how those that are, are doing! Make sense to me!

 

[SkyPilot]

Rules??? (Must rules be set in concrete?)
I can’t see why those who pay for service should be restricted from partaking in the automatic Tracker?
For myself, I see Ebb’s system as a tool and have no intention of following it to the letter.
I do however want to see how my performance is doing compared to other members. There is something to be learned there. Something to be gained. If you must draw your oz. of blood, denote those members who Pay for service and restrict them from prizes and rewards. It seems to me that those members who are NOT on a pay for service program would also want to know how those that are, are doing! Make sense to me!

Of course, you can use any number of tools available to track yourself. Compare your results to those using the auto tracker, and there you go.

The auto tracker is really for those who want to enter into a friendly competition to see who can guess the market the best using their own intuition/system/luck.

If you want to know how the systems that are fee for service are doing, then just refer to their published results. Those using those systems will reflect those results anyway.

 

[charmed855]

Two diametrically opposed business models are now in play. You can't do both effectively. If membership is where the money is and the free flow of information is discouraged, then the tracking and active account talk participation will shrivel on the vine.

 

[ATCJeff]

Two diametrically opposed business s are now in play. You can't do both effectively. If membership is where the money is and the free flow of information is discouraged, then the tracking and active account talk participation will shrivel on the vine.

I agree. I think Tom just made the first step(unintentional) towards a completely paid site. How long that will take is the million dollar question. By having a paid service associated with this site will result in a huge loss on the message board. In my opinion, it has already taken place. I would think the daily total number of post has probably already started a decline.

My 2 cents