The Tracker and Paid Services

[Miss_Piggy]

Doesn't seem to be any problem viewing. Just go to the automated tracker and click your choice below the the login block - without logging in.

Thank you so much. I didn't realize that.

 

[jlpost]

Doesn't seem to be any problem viewing. Just go to the automated tracker and click your choice below the the login block - without logging in.

 

[Miss_Piggy]

Re: Question

Originally Posted by Miss Piggy
Can a pay subscriber have access to the Automated Tracker just to view (not to have their own account tracked)?

The purpose for the Automated Tracker is to record you allocations and IFTs in order to calculate your return, and compare with others. Any TSPTalk member with ten posts can join the Automated Tracker. You do not have to subscribe to the premium services to access the tracker. You must post a fund allocation at least every three months to remain in the tracker. If there is no change in allocation, one would enter the same fund allocation.

IS THAT A FLAT "NO"?

 

[EW_ret]

Re: Question

The purpose for the Automated Tracker is to record you allocations and IFTs in order to calculate your return, and compare with others. Any TSPTalk member with ten posts can join the Automated Tracker. You do not have to subscribe to the premium services to access the tracker. You must post a fund allocation at least every three months to remain in the tracker. If there is no change in allocation, one would enter the same fund allocation.

Can a pay subscriber have access to the Automated Tracker just to view (not to have their own account tracked)?

 

[Miss_Piggy]

Question

Can a pay subscriber have access to the Automated Tracker just to view (not to have their own account tracked)?

 

[ocean]

Just finished the code with the suggestions that I mentioned earlier. Please check it out.

Ocean

 

[ocean]

OK. This is what I plan to do, see if it makes sense.

All paid services will not be shown on IFT of the day. Only YTD returns will be shown. Their last 5 allocations will be blocked.

As for paid members, YTD returns will be shown and last 5 allocation will be blocked as well.

Other non paid members data will be shown as usual. This is the same way as we've been doing with the webtracker and "no chat" allocation and record reporting.

I discourage the idea of only register members can see IFT of the day, member's recording etc. By opening up of this type of data, it would provide additional free info along with other useful market analysis.

If any paid or non paid members feel they don't want to show that much of own data. My suggestion is to PM EW to take it off from the tracker.

Hope this approach would help to easy the tension a bit.

BTW, the paid services on IFT allocation in "IFT of the day" has been implemented and now it is made effective.

Ocean

 

[budnipper1]

I don't think anyone has suggested just because someone has subscribed to a service that their IFT's should be hidden. However, if an individual is using a subscription service to make their moves, it is incumbent upon them to avoid posting their moves in a manner that reveals the content of the subscription service.

SkyPilot...I believe you and I are probably on about the same page on this issue, but if you scroll down through this thread, you'll find numerous comments conspiring to exactly that line of thought. In fact, the majority of the comments within this thread eventually lead up to hiding IFT's of paying subscribers or expelling them from the tracker altogether.

Here are three examples:
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=120765&postcount=12
/quote:
When thinking about any change to the Automated Tracker, please follow the "simple solution" is the best. That simple solution is to follow rule six; do not track any member who pays for a TSP service. If you pay for any TSP service you are not in the tracker. This is the simple solution. We do not have the resources to differentiate between those that follow sometimes, those that follow all the time but use different funds, and those that follow but go to G fund safety and never the F fund. This just complicates the tracking work, and does not eliminate the policing of violators.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=121194&postcount=30
/quote:
I just implemented the feature that the autotracker is now capable of blocking the paid members with their last three transactions and returns the same same as the paid services.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=121203&postcount=32
/quote:
I believe that this is a good way to keep both paid and non-paid members on the same chart. Some comments I read here (GGal and Fundsurfer) that it may be a good way to block out certain parts of the info from paid members but will keep them on the tally.

 

[camper65]

How about US? Moderators get FREE access to the PFSs are we going to be treated the same way as the Member subscribers, or are we trusted enough not to spill the beans? As anyone can see I really don't follow any system, but I do take their allocations into consideration.

The Tracker, I believe is probably the biggest reason people are attracted to TSP Talk, I really believe that. The more people on it the better.

Idealistically the folks that subscribe would have a tracker just for them to track their moves, there may be a few that follow religiously, but I don't think there is many that won't go on their own if the PFS ain't doing too well. They should be in the other tracker too in order for the other members to see how well they are doing in the paid services (Totals only). I know the problems this would create in the tracker but may resolve this problem. Sometimes I have a strange way of looking at things, but that's just how my mind works.
My 4 cents,
Norman

I agree with you! The sooner the better! For my self, I have to ask why I should be paying for a sys. that can be gotten for free! This doesn't work as is. If paid for Sys. work, then there results will stand. No need to show individual moves. (My 2 cents)

 

[SkyPilot]

I don't think anyone has suggested just because someone has subscribed to a service that their IFT's should be hidden. However, if an individual is using a subscription service to make their moves, it is incumbent upon them to avoid posting their moves in a manner that reveals the content of the subscription service.

And why would someone want to? Participants who are using a particular service will notice right away, so it's not as if one could claim great prowess in their financial acumen without being outed.

However, if you are using several services and picking and choosing between them, no one will be able to know who's who or what's what. And then, watch folks post their moves on TSP Stategery and smoke the returns on that forum .

If things get to be too much of a problem, I suppose that the proprietor of the paid service could revoke the subscription of the indiscrete poster. :blink:

 

[camper65]

Were do I go to talk to other paid for service members on matters that should be between them and I???? No one else??
I see a need for a secure thread here, am I wrong???

 

[budnipper1]

There is an important and distinct difference between some members' interpretations of the rules and what is actually stated in those rules. A member who pays for a service might not follow the recommendation of that paid service. This will likely apply to the current status of many tsptalk members.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showpost.php?p=120765&postcount=12
EW_ret
TSP Tracker
Re: The Tracker and Paid Services
That simple solution is to follow rule six; do not track any member who pays for a TSP service. If you pay for any TSP service you are not in the tracker.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=4775
Automated Tracker Rules
6. You should not use the Automated Tracker if you are following TSP Timing Newsletter, TSP Trader System, or any other allocation service.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=4386
Rules For Posting In Members' Accounts (no chat)
7. You should not create an Account if you are following TSP Timing Newsletter, TSP Trader System, or any other paid service.

Only a select, small number of members of tsp.talk have access to lists of the paying subscribers. (Tom, and others with a "need to know") Unless a member has made a point to announce it, the general population does not know who pays or who does not pay. Considering these facts, I suggest that blocking the IFT's posted by Ebb and the other Pay Services should be all that is necessary to "protect" the sanctity of the tracker and the pay services. After implementing that measure, if any member's returns develop a pattern of exactly mirroring Ebb's moves or returns, or the returns of any of the other pay services, then the blocking of that member's IFT's in the tracker would then be appropriate.

Blocking the IFT's of any other tsp.talk members merely because they have subscribed to a pay service serves no useful purpose, except to penalize those members for supporting this site, which is the main reason these services were created.

 

[ocean]

The following was the private thread and repost here. I will do what is needed to protect the paid service info and the paid members' interest but I do want to provide good info for the public if it is to be determined useful.

Ocean

My theory for opening up certain info unblocked is to attract all site visitors for frequent visits. If the site has useful information, people will come. That is the purpose of the free site. If the blocking of three is not sufficient, I can make it to 5 for both paid members and paid services.

However, if all the members info are blocked, it will defeat the original purpose of the webtracker. Basically all the info are available from the webtracker and its weekly reports and ATCjeff's daily returns for top 10, but the autotracker makes it much easy to locate. I don't see there is any of security issue here.

As for paid services, we have 1 protected service and 2 unprotected services since last summer (until recently). The returns from these services range from below average, to average to extremely exceptional. But it is up to the individual to make their own investment decision. Not everyone 100% follows these services. It is the beauty of free investment. It is indicated from over 140 tracked members' records on the webtracker.

If non-paid visitor could receive some hints or investment idea from this site, why not let them do it if they found the info useful. If they could configure out all the moves of the Ebbchart, that's good for them. But still, will they follow it 100%, that is another question.

My original goal to have the autotracker written was to help the admin to do the job easier and at the same time to provide useful info for visitors. Certainly I do not want to have all the info hidden for paid members.

But I will make certain adjustment for registered members (not the paid members) to view its own data if it is determined to be necessary.

 

[EW_ret]

I want the feature. Its useful, but its not sufficiently secure in my opinion. I can guess the IFT moves of Trader Fred by examining the prior IFTs that are not blocked and knowing that Trader Fred is making a move today, under IFT of the day, even when the allocation is blocked for the day. The fact that a paid service or that many members who subscribe are making a move for the day informs the public that a move is being made. I see a pattern formed looking at prior unblocked IFTs moves by the paid services. If the public knows that today the EbbChart is making a move, I can give a good guess if today’s move is to safety or to I/S funds. Over time of a few weeks or month, however, that would change when EbbChart moves between I and S, or S and I. The Trader Fred service is different because its pattern is stocks, safety, stocks, safety, etc. So for this service blocking just the past three moves is insufficient.

I say we should block all prior IFTs, or more than three. We also should not display the paid services' IFTs under IFT of the day.

I also say once again that we not allow public access to IFT of the day | Members IFT Records | Members Ranking | Returns Analysis | (click on to see) Currently anyone can access all tracker records without logging in. Just click on any of these links at the User Logon page. I say that the tracker records only be accessible after a member logs in. I see this as a big risk factor to our tracker service. I see the convenience, but when the public finds this it could degrade the tracker service. Is this concern of mine exaggerated?

 

[James48843]

Minnow is correct (Minnow- isn't this fun? )


TSP.gov USUALLY, but not always, posts new fund prices right around 7 pm. eastern time. Sometimes it's a little later, but 9 times out of 10 they are up by 7:30 pm.

And Minnow is right- that sometimes it seems to be that if they have a FV day, the posting is a little later.

Note to all: They seem to ALWAYS have the new prices on the TSP Thrift line phone service PRIOR to it being posted on the internet. There have been multiple times when they didn't have it posted on tsp.gov, and I was able to call the thriftline and get the numbers at about 7:15pm. Although, again, the FV days seem to be a source of slight delay.

 

[James48843]

My vote says yes. That seems to be a good idea. I would like to see EVERYONE compete on the autotracker.

I don't follow any of the paid services exactly. But I DO take a look at the paid services, and factor it into my thought process. Perhaps 15% of my decision on placement may be influenced by where the paid services are - Personnally, I watch Ebb and Trader Fred- but I don't mirror either one of them exactly.

And NO, I don't want to compete for any prizes- I want those to go to the folks who show their ability to perform on their own.

My 2 cents- for what it's worth. (And Ocean will even give me back a penny change...)

 

[ocean]

Ocean,

Does this mean we can now use the autotracker if we are following a paid service? Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

Aspiration,

I believe that this is a good way to keep both paid and non-paid members on the same chart. Some comments I read here (GGal and Fundsurfer) that it may be a good way to block out certain parts of the info from paid members but will keep them on the tally.

Again, I'll let the board moderators to make the final decision on this.

Ocean

 

[Aspiration]

Ocean,

Does this mean we can now use the autotracker if we are following a paid service? Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

 

[ocean]

I just implemented the feature that the autotracker is now capable of blocking the paid members with their last three transactions and returns the same same as the paid services. Example (Ocean and TSPTalk_Trading)

link: http://www.tsptalk.com/tracker/tsp_user_balance_all.php

Note: The board moderators will make the final decision to determine if this is a good way to block the paid members' info.

Ocean

 

[GGal]

I like the idea of allowing the paid people to post to the tracker but blocking their allocations from others.

I like the idea of including the paid people's returns in the tally.

We will all know who they are since their allocations will be blocked, and seeing their returns may be good advertisement for others to sign up (or not!)

A tally is just a tally.

Of course, paid subscribers shouldn't win prizes. That would p#ss everybody off!

GGAL