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The hunt for a bargain property
- Thread starter pyriel
- Start date
pyriel
Active member
My offer of full price of 99k was accepted by the bank. Bank also offered to give it to me via VA loan. Hmmm... They did the number for me and they are willing to include majority of the closing cost to the loan. Interest rate 7.5% 30 year amortized and monthly payment is 869.00 a month which will include property tax and insurance with the monthly payment. I did the number against two of the best offer I got but I am having a problem attaching it here... It would be nice to show everyone the difference between 20% down, 10% down, and no down, with different interest rates and closing. Hopefully, I can attach it sometime this weekend.
In the meantime, my due diligence is ticking. My real estate agent and I will be looking over the property tomorrow and start listing the things that needs to be fixed and how much it will probably cost me... Standby...
In the meantime, my due diligence is ticking. My real estate agent and I will be looking over the property tomorrow and start listing the things that needs to be fixed and how much it will probably cost me... Standby...
pyriel
Active member
Thanks Tom for increasing the excel size file allowed in attachment.Gilligan said:
Gilligan, keep it up... practice makes perfect... Next thing you know, you'll be able to tell (within your head whether a real estate agent is giving you bogus information about a property being a good investment).
My real estate agent is currently sick and we have not had a chance to take a look at the property. I do have 15 days to do my due diligence so I am not worry about it. What i've been doing is getting all of my paperwork ready. I have a financial statement readily available and I am now printing out all of the supporting documents such as LES, TSP balance, IRAs, Checking and Savings account balance, two-three copies of all of my credit card bills (i always tell them that my credit cards have zero balance or I am paying them off every month so they want to see at least three billings) and VOE. The rest, they should be able to get that from my credit report. The difference between making a loan here on this tiny island vs. the mainland is the expediency and loan mortgages competition. Here I am stuck with what bank we have. In the mainland, they are practically giving out loans with zero down and closing. Makes me wish I live there.
I've attached the cash on cash return investment on the best three banks that I researched. It seemed that I will be dealing with Bank #3. They are offering me a great deal (please see attached). With less money coming out of my pocket + higher cash on cash return, I definitely and most likely take their offer. I'll be leaving TDY for the Philippines for 3 weeks, then will head to Indiana for another week so my wife will have to do the closing by herself. I'll set everything up before I leave... More to follow...;-)
pyriel
Active member
Milk, Selling point of the house is the magnificent view. The house has unlimited potential for investment especially for those who are thrill seekers. I would definitely contact skydiving companies and form a partnership with them. They can use the house as a base camp before they jump off the cliff for skydiving. They can then store their gears there so that they don't have to be lugging in back and forth. Now, the problem is how the heck am I going to get insurance for it...;-)mlk_man said:
pyriel
Active member
Infinite returns?
I think everyone know within this board that I am an advocate of real estate investing. I am not saying that real estate investing is bette than market timing. But I have alot more flexibilities in lowering down my risks and increasing my profits. With the things i've learned within the past few years, I am not only lowering down my risks but in some instances, actually eliminating them. Returns such as 15%, 50%, 100%, 1000% are now achievable and have become realistic instead of a dream. In fact, I was able to prove that with the deal I made with the 4 unit apt where I received 50k (or 50,000%) in profit without forking any money from my pocket (please see other posts). Many people do not share my sentiment but others out there that have actually tried it, knows that it is possible. I would like to share one of Robert Kiyosaki's commentary investment write up for Yahoo. I hope that it helps many of you as well... P
A few weeks ago, I was at a financial conference giving an investing talk. A hand from the audience shot up as I talked about returns on investments of 50 percent, 1,000 percent, and infinite returns. "That's a load of rubbish," shouted the person attached to the hand waving in the air.
I asked the participant to clarify what he thought was a load of rubbish.
"You can't get such high returns," he replied angrily. "I'm a financial planner, and I've never seen anyone achieve such returns."
"What kind of investments do you recommend for your clients?" I asked.
"I recommend a well-diversified portfolio of cash, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds," he replied indignantly. "That's why I ask you: How can you get such high returns from these investments?"
"Because I don't invest in those investments," was my reply.
No Honest Advantage I don't think too highly of investments such as savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, as my articles have made clear. I have written about the importance of having control over your investments -- how professional investors can invest with higher returns and less risk simply because they have more control. People who invest in paper assets -- such as savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds -- have very little control (see "Why Business Smarts Are Investing Smarts").
Beyond the issue of control, there's something else even more important for some professional investors. One of the problems I have with savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds is that I don't have an honest advantage over other investors. In this area, if I do become creative and find an advantage, I run the risk of going to jail or paying stiff fines, whereas finding an edge in other kinds of investment doesn't carry such legal risk. For example:
1. With registered securities, trading on insider information is illegal. When investing in a business or in real estate, insider information can give you a legal competitive advantage.
2. With paper assets, you have very little control over your greatest expense -- taxes. When investing in a business or real estate, you can gain a legal, competitive advantage by paying less in taxes, which increases your return on investment.
Creativity Puts You Ahead
When it comes to savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, the government, via agencies such as the Securities & Exchange Commission, does its best to keep the playing field level and the rules fair. It's important they do this since so many amateur investors are involved.
At the same time, the SEC's tight rules tend to take away as much creativity as possible. With businesses and real estate, legal creativity is your advantage. The more legally creative you are, the greater your return on investment.
Recently, I bought 10 acres of land for $100,000. Since the land is already zoned for mobile homes, my plan is to simply subdivide the property into approximately 50 lots and sell each lot for $25,000. Do the math, and you'll see that the 10 acres are worth a gross of $1.25 million, which is not a bad return on a $100,000 initial investment. The legal advantage is the mobile-home zoning, an advantage all the other land in the area does not have.
Seeking an Edge
Another property recently came up for sale that's more complex and interesting -- a whole town for sale in Nevada for $12 million. We estimate the town's single family homes alone are worth $26 million. The remaining buildings and land, including a golf course, we estimate to be worth another $10 million.
Our plan is to raise the $12 million, plus an additional $2 million to fix up the single-family homes, and then sell those homes for $26 million. We then pay back the investors and split the potential $12 million dollars in gross profit. The rest of the town would belong to the five of us who put the deal together. That would be our real return on investment.
This all sounds easy in theory, but there's one serious problem, which is the reason the town's price is low. We suspect there are environmental problems, which the Environmental Protection Agency would pounce on, levying heavy fines, once we own the town. Before investing any money, a friend of mine who specializes in polluted properties will evaluate the risks. If the contamination is too high, we won't invest. If the contamination is low and we can solve the problem, we stand to make millions without putting a dime into the venture.
These are two examples of how a little skill and creativity can be used for legal advantages. So here are four lessons I want to leave you with:
1. Be careful about who gives you investment advice. If your advisor thinks an 8% return is a good return, you may want to look for another advisor.
2. Someone else's problem can be your opportunity.
3. Take the time to cultivate a stable of friends who know how to solve tough problems.
4. Learn to invest in investments where you can achieve an honest, legal advantage over other investors. When it comes to investing, why play on a level field?
Another property recently came up for sale that's more complex and interesting -- a whole town for sale in Nevada for $12 million. We estimate the town's single family homes alone are worth $26 million. The remaining buildings and land, including a golf course, we estimate to be worth another $10 million.
Our plan is to raise the $12 million, plus an additional $2 million to fix up the single-family homes, and then sell those homes for $26 million. We then pay back the investors and split the potential $12 million dollars in gross profit. The rest of the town would belong to the five of us who put the deal together. That would be our real return on investment.
This all sounds easy in theory, but there's one serious problem, which is the reason the town's price is low. We suspect there are environmental problems, which the Environmental Protection Agency would pounce on, levying heavy fines, once we own the town. Before investing any money, a friend of mine who specializes in polluted properties will evaluate the risks. If the contamination is too high, we won't invest. If the contamination is low and we can solve the problem, we stand to make millions without putting a dime into the venture.
These are two examples of how a little skill and creativity can be used for legal advantages. So here are four lessons I want to leave you with:
1. Be careful about who gives you investment advice. If your advisor thinks an 8% return is a good return, you may want to look for another advisor.
2. Someone else's problem can be your opportunity.
3. Take the time to cultivate a stable of friends who know how to solve tough problems.
4. Learn to invest in investments where you can achieve an honest, legal advantage over other investors. When it comes to investing, why play on a level field?
I think everyone know within this board that I am an advocate of real estate investing. I am not saying that real estate investing is bette than market timing. But I have alot more flexibilities in lowering down my risks and increasing my profits. With the things i've learned within the past few years, I am not only lowering down my risks but in some instances, actually eliminating them. Returns such as 15%, 50%, 100%, 1000% are now achievable and have become realistic instead of a dream. In fact, I was able to prove that with the deal I made with the 4 unit apt where I received 50k (or 50,000%) in profit without forking any money from my pocket (please see other posts). Many people do not share my sentiment but others out there that have actually tried it, knows that it is possible. I would like to share one of Robert Kiyosaki's commentary investment write up for Yahoo. I hope that it helps many of you as well... P
A few weeks ago, I was at a financial conference giving an investing talk. A hand from the audience shot up as I talked about returns on investments of 50 percent, 1,000 percent, and infinite returns. "That's a load of rubbish," shouted the person attached to the hand waving in the air.
I asked the participant to clarify what he thought was a load of rubbish.
"You can't get such high returns," he replied angrily. "I'm a financial planner, and I've never seen anyone achieve such returns."
"What kind of investments do you recommend for your clients?" I asked.
"I recommend a well-diversified portfolio of cash, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds," he replied indignantly. "That's why I ask you: How can you get such high returns from these investments?"
"Because I don't invest in those investments," was my reply.
No Honest Advantage I don't think too highly of investments such as savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, as my articles have made clear. I have written about the importance of having control over your investments -- how professional investors can invest with higher returns and less risk simply because they have more control. People who invest in paper assets -- such as savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds -- have very little control (see "Why Business Smarts Are Investing Smarts").
Beyond the issue of control, there's something else even more important for some professional investors. One of the problems I have with savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds is that I don't have an honest advantage over other investors. In this area, if I do become creative and find an advantage, I run the risk of going to jail or paying stiff fines, whereas finding an edge in other kinds of investment doesn't carry such legal risk. For example:
1. With registered securities, trading on insider information is illegal. When investing in a business or in real estate, insider information can give you a legal competitive advantage.
2. With paper assets, you have very little control over your greatest expense -- taxes. When investing in a business or real estate, you can gain a legal, competitive advantage by paying less in taxes, which increases your return on investment.
Creativity Puts You Ahead
When it comes to savings, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, the government, via agencies such as the Securities & Exchange Commission, does its best to keep the playing field level and the rules fair. It's important they do this since so many amateur investors are involved.
At the same time, the SEC's tight rules tend to take away as much creativity as possible. With businesses and real estate, legal creativity is your advantage. The more legally creative you are, the greater your return on investment.
Recently, I bought 10 acres of land for $100,000. Since the land is already zoned for mobile homes, my plan is to simply subdivide the property into approximately 50 lots and sell each lot for $25,000. Do the math, and you'll see that the 10 acres are worth a gross of $1.25 million, which is not a bad return on a $100,000 initial investment. The legal advantage is the mobile-home zoning, an advantage all the other land in the area does not have.
Seeking an Edge
Another property recently came up for sale that's more complex and interesting -- a whole town for sale in Nevada for $12 million. We estimate the town's single family homes alone are worth $26 million. The remaining buildings and land, including a golf course, we estimate to be worth another $10 million.
Our plan is to raise the $12 million, plus an additional $2 million to fix up the single-family homes, and then sell those homes for $26 million. We then pay back the investors and split the potential $12 million dollars in gross profit. The rest of the town would belong to the five of us who put the deal together. That would be our real return on investment.
This all sounds easy in theory, but there's one serious problem, which is the reason the town's price is low. We suspect there are environmental problems, which the Environmental Protection Agency would pounce on, levying heavy fines, once we own the town. Before investing any money, a friend of mine who specializes in polluted properties will evaluate the risks. If the contamination is too high, we won't invest. If the contamination is low and we can solve the problem, we stand to make millions without putting a dime into the venture.
These are two examples of how a little skill and creativity can be used for legal advantages. So here are four lessons I want to leave you with:
1. Be careful about who gives you investment advice. If your advisor thinks an 8% return is a good return, you may want to look for another advisor.
2. Someone else's problem can be your opportunity.
3. Take the time to cultivate a stable of friends who know how to solve tough problems.
4. Learn to invest in investments where you can achieve an honest, legal advantage over other investors. When it comes to investing, why play on a level field?
Another property recently came up for sale that's more complex and interesting -- a whole town for sale in Nevada for $12 million. We estimate the town's single family homes alone are worth $26 million. The remaining buildings and land, including a golf course, we estimate to be worth another $10 million.
Our plan is to raise the $12 million, plus an additional $2 million to fix up the single-family homes, and then sell those homes for $26 million. We then pay back the investors and split the potential $12 million dollars in gross profit. The rest of the town would belong to the five of us who put the deal together. That would be our real return on investment.
This all sounds easy in theory, but there's one serious problem, which is the reason the town's price is low. We suspect there are environmental problems, which the Environmental Protection Agency would pounce on, levying heavy fines, once we own the town. Before investing any money, a friend of mine who specializes in polluted properties will evaluate the risks. If the contamination is too high, we won't invest. If the contamination is low and we can solve the problem, we stand to make millions without putting a dime into the venture.
These are two examples of how a little skill and creativity can be used for legal advantages. So here are four lessons I want to leave you with:
1. Be careful about who gives you investment advice. If your advisor thinks an 8% return is a good return, you may want to look for another advisor.
2. Someone else's problem can be your opportunity.
3. Take the time to cultivate a stable of friends who know how to solve tough problems.
4. Learn to invest in investments where you can achieve an honest, legal advantage over other investors. When it comes to investing, why play on a level field?
pyriel
Active member
Va
I've decided to go with bank 3 utilizing my VA certificate which i've used before. For those who are not too familiar with VA loan, once you use your certificate, you can't use it again until the mortgage is paid off. Then they will hit you with higher points. The reason why I chose to go this route is because of 1) less money coming out of my pocket 2) they willl be lending me more than the purchase price 3) as i've been saying before less money coming out of my pocket also lessen my risks (this is what Kiyosaki was talking about). 4) Infinite returns 5) immediate returns since money is here and now and not something that I will have to wait for when I reach 59.5 years old.
Just to make something clear since I am now buying this house using my VA certificate; I PLAN ON LIVING IN THIS HOUSE! Ok I said it. Now, I've provided my intent as required by law. What happens later once I purchase the property; well no one may know for sure. What I am certain is that if I find out later that the property is not conducive to the standard of living that I have set to raise my family, then I am open to relook other options to take care of that situation. I may move out and have it rented, I may sell the property, or I may just suck it up and live there. But that is the future and i'll wait in making that decision once I reach that crossroad.
All documents have been provided to the bank. I will leave for tdy tomorrow for a month. I did my final due diligence inspection today and provided my real estate agent what I found and to convey that to the seller. I had 15 days to do my due diligence. Wife has my power of attorney so she can do the closing. I know what needs to be fixed and will contact my workers when I get back.
See you guys later...
I've decided to go with bank 3 utilizing my VA certificate which i've used before. For those who are not too familiar with VA loan, once you use your certificate, you can't use it again until the mortgage is paid off. Then they will hit you with higher points. The reason why I chose to go this route is because of 1) less money coming out of my pocket 2) they willl be lending me more than the purchase price 3) as i've been saying before less money coming out of my pocket also lessen my risks (this is what Kiyosaki was talking about). 4) Infinite returns 5) immediate returns since money is here and now and not something that I will have to wait for when I reach 59.5 years old.
Just to make something clear since I am now buying this house using my VA certificate; I PLAN ON LIVING IN THIS HOUSE! Ok I said it. Now, I've provided my intent as required by law. What happens later once I purchase the property; well no one may know for sure. What I am certain is that if I find out later that the property is not conducive to the standard of living that I have set to raise my family, then I am open to relook other options to take care of that situation. I may move out and have it rented, I may sell the property, or I may just suck it up and live there. But that is the future and i'll wait in making that decision once I reach that crossroad.
All documents have been provided to the bank. I will leave for tdy tomorrow for a month. I did my final due diligence inspection today and provided my real estate agent what I found and to convey that to the seller. I had 15 days to do my due diligence. Wife has my power of attorney so she can do the closing. I know what needs to be fixed and will contact my workers when I get back.
See you guys later...
Gilligan
Member
Pyriel,
I found you another rent house. I’ll call the Skipper and see if the SS Minnow can tug this to you.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4443031072&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1
If that link does not work just type in item number 4443031072 on ebay.
Gilligan
I found you another rent house. I’ll call the Skipper and see if the SS Minnow can tug this to you.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4443031072&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1
If that link does not work just type in item number 4443031072 on ebay.
Gilligan
pyriel
Active member
Thanks Gilligan, all i need is a big motor and a water proppeller so I can sail from one island to another island within Asia;-)
Appraisal is being done and should be complete by next week. That is the last leg of the requirement for me to close this deal. A key note. Surveyor did did not cath the overhang on one side of the house which made the house nonconforming. I brought the issue to the appraisal and he said that I am right but he would follow what the surveyor had put down and will not cite the overhang issue with his report.
I have decided to buy the property even though there is a setback issue. There is a possibility that I might not be able to sell the property later on if another appraisal catches the setback. However, I am willing to take that risk because 1) I can fix the overhang issue for a couple of thousand of dollars, 2) i'm buying the house real cheap 3) the cash on cash return is there. For VA, they are allowing me to borrow extra 6k to purchase energy efficient appliances. Since this will bring up equity and appraisal value for the house, i've decided to take it and put it in the loan. I should be able to close this deal by this week (my wife will probably do it since im tdy) or next week when I get back.
P
Appraisal is being done and should be complete by next week. That is the last leg of the requirement for me to close this deal. A key note. Surveyor did did not cath the overhang on one side of the house which made the house nonconforming. I brought the issue to the appraisal and he said that I am right but he would follow what the surveyor had put down and will not cite the overhang issue with his report.
I have decided to buy the property even though there is a setback issue. There is a possibility that I might not be able to sell the property later on if another appraisal catches the setback. However, I am willing to take that risk because 1) I can fix the overhang issue for a couple of thousand of dollars, 2) i'm buying the house real cheap 3) the cash on cash return is there. For VA, they are allowing me to borrow extra 6k to purchase energy efficient appliances. Since this will bring up equity and appraisal value for the house, i've decided to take it and put it in the loan. I should be able to close this deal by this week (my wife will probably do it since im tdy) or next week when I get back.
P
pyriel
Active member
Wow, the last time I updated this was 12 March. Time sure fly fast. Well, the bank and I still haven't closed. Apraisal came in for $112k. I'm sure that after I do my renovation that it will appraised for $125k. Real estate here is increasing slowly still. The house have termites and I've already had one of the company here fixing it. Good thing about Guam houses, they are made of bricks and cement so the only damage is minimal and concentrated in one of the bedroom. Termite work will cost me additional $600 so I will have to add that on with my closing/purchase price. I hope to close this week but if not, I really have to close it next week. I will be leaving for the Philippines again and then off to Austin, TX for a couple of days.
My friends and I found this 4235sm R2 lot that is ripe for a business that we are thinking of building within the next 5 years. It currently has a price tag of $300k so we are currently doing the numbers on that.
I'll be doing a renovation by August in one of my properties in the Philippines to start a business by January 07. This is why I am going back and forth in that place.
If I survive all of these and I don't push myself into bankruptcy, I will most likely hunker down and rebuild my cash reserve. We have a business that my friends and I want to build in 5 years and I estimate the cost of that to be $3.5 mil. We'll see... That will be another blog...
My friends and I found this 4235sm R2 lot that is ripe for a business that we are thinking of building within the next 5 years. It currently has a price tag of $300k so we are currently doing the numbers on that.
I'll be doing a renovation by August in one of my properties in the Philippines to start a business by January 07. This is why I am going back and forth in that place.
If I survive all of these and I don't push myself into bankruptcy, I will most likely hunker down and rebuild my cash reserve. We have a business that my friends and I want to build in 5 years and I estimate the cost of that to be $3.5 mil. We'll see... That will be another blog...
pyriel
Active member
Gilligan said:
We closed yesterday and I now owned a new (old) property. The quest for a bargain property is almost over. I say that it is almost over because I still have to fix it and have it rented. Here are the numbers to show what have I invested in this property.
Total loan to the bank is 108,465.00 (6k is for me to buy energy efficient appliances)
Out of the 6k I will purchase the following:
refrigerator
stove
typhoon shutter (also serves to cool the house)
airconditioning
Money came out of my pocket:
deposit = 500
upon closing = 4506.18
appraisal & reinspection fee = 600
Total = 5606.18 (this is my investment)
Additional repairs:
change tiles througout the entire house
change two front doors
change two security doors
redo the kitchen cabinet
repaint inside and outside of the house
clean the surroundings
First monthly payment is 6/1/06 for 822.60. So I need to get the house fix and hopefully rented before that. I am now racing against the clock...
Stay tune... This is almost over...
pyriel
Active member
pyriel said:
Shopped around for a contractor and I found one that will change the vinyl tiles into ceramic tiles, fix all plumbing, do some plastering, changing two security doors, fix parts of the kitchen cabinet, and do the yard cleaning for $2650 labor only. We've decided not to replace the two front doors and my brother, who happens to be a painter, will be waterblasting, sealing the roof with elastomerics, and painting the inside and outside of the house. I've already bought the tiles (16x16) for 50 cents each (they were on clearance sale). Total cost with tile spacers is $600. I have about 15 thinsets leftover from my last project so I only have to buy a few more. All in all, i might make it to my final 10k investment that I allocated for this project. We'll see what happens...
Note: For rental properties, please ensure to change all faucets into one lever option instead of the three lever option (hot/cold/changer) Why? Because this is one of the culprits on why tenants call you all the time. The three lever option might be cheap but they break easily... just some pointers... P
pyriel
Active member
Hello all. I'm in the coffee shop in one of the metropolis hangout in the Philippines. I love it here... In the meantime, workers continue to make renovations to my little project at home. I should be back on Guam on Friday but i'll be leaving again for Austin on Monday. I am only mentioning this because I want to relate what is happening to my next discussion and this is about contracting.
It is imperative as a real estate investor to get to know the prices of commodities that will be needed to make repairs. If you have ever done a renovation contract, I would suggest to do one for "labor only." (at first). This is so that you can get familiarized with the cost of materials being utilized for your renovation project. You can save alot of money just buying the materials yourself before you start a project and pay someone for labor only. Also hanging out with them and learning by asking and having tell you how are they doing things will also help you tremendously. So that next time, you may be able to gauge how long and how expensive a particular renovation could cost.
Just like with this site. The more we hang out here, the more we become comfortable with moving our funds (although we don't always get the best result hehehe). Get to know your hardware store and know the cost of your needed commodities. This will result in lowering down your investment which would allow you to get a higer cash on cash return.
P
It is imperative as a real estate investor to get to know the prices of commodities that will be needed to make repairs. If you have ever done a renovation contract, I would suggest to do one for "labor only." (at first). This is so that you can get familiarized with the cost of materials being utilized for your renovation project. You can save alot of money just buying the materials yourself before you start a project and pay someone for labor only. Also hanging out with them and learning by asking and having tell you how are they doing things will also help you tremendously. So that next time, you may be able to gauge how long and how expensive a particular renovation could cost.
Just like with this site. The more we hang out here, the more we become comfortable with moving our funds (although we don't always get the best result hehehe). Get to know your hardware store and know the cost of your needed commodities. This will result in lowering down your investment which would allow you to get a higer cash on cash return.
P
Gilligan
Member
Pyriel,
I was surprised to see that you could buy 16X16 ceramic tile for .50 cents each. I thought that material prices in Guam would be higher. Here in Texas material for a 2,100 sq ft house cost $39,999 plus the concrete slab which cost $1 sq ft for the concrete OR $3.50 sq ft (labor and material) for a contractor to pour it.
http://sutherlands.com/fredericksburg.htm
Click on the sales paper then click on pg #18.
I was surprised to see that you could buy 16X16 ceramic tile for .50 cents each. I thought that material prices in Guam would be higher. Here in Texas material for a 2,100 sq ft house cost $39,999 plus the concrete slab which cost $1 sq ft for the concrete OR $3.50 sq ft (labor and material) for a contractor to pour it.
http://sutherlands.com/fredericksburg.htm
Click on the sales paper then click on pg #18.
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