The Big 3 - Bail out or Bust

I've lived all over the country in the past 50-odd years, and my family is well-scattered as well, so I know a LOT of the towns where dealerships are closing. When I look at distribution of closings within 50-100 miles of here, I think to myself-go long towing companies-either that or forget about warranty work on new vehicles and go to your local shade tree mechanic and hope he's current on his training for newer vehicles.
 
Yes, I really think it will be bad...but should also lower oil prices due to fewer cars being sold...very sad indeed. It's going to be bloody if this happens unless they can reorganize...but with the Union obligations for some companies, I don't know how they will survive unless Uncle Obama bails them out w/our money.
 
Besides all the Dealers and their employees taking it in the shorts..the collateral damage to the local economies are going to be devastated too..

Very Sad!:(
 
GM, Chrysler to cut up to 3,000 dealers: sources

Wed May 13, 2009 4:44pm EDT
By Soyoung Kim and John Crawley

DETROIT/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - General Motors Corp and Chrysler aim to drop as many as 3,000 U.S. dealers and are expected to begin sending notifications as early as Thursday, three people briefed on the still developing plans said.

GM, facing a U.S. government-imposed deadline of June 1 to restructure or file for bankruptcy, is expected to send termination notices to up to 2,000 dealers -- a third of its roughly 6,000 U.S. dealers, the sources told Reuters.

Chrysler, which filed for bankruptcy on April 30, will also tell up to 1,000 of its 3,189 U.S. dealers it is terminating their franchise agreements, according to the sources who asked not to be identified because the controversial closure plans have not been yet announced.

The moves to shut down auto dealerships underscores how the economic pain caused by the downward spiral of both automakers -- now operating under U.S. government oversight -- is spreading beyond their home base in Detroit.

The development comes as dealer representatives have stepped up lobbying in Washington to try to slow down closures they estimate would cost 200,000 dealership jobs.

The involuntary terminations are also widely expected to prompt a legal challenge from dealers who are independent retail networks protected by state franchise laws.

Chrysler spokeswoman Kathy Graham said the automaker had not announced its dealership closure plans.

"We have not announced anything at this point," she said. "We are not done with our process at this point."

A GM spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

More than 100 members from the National Automobile Dealers Association, a group representing the country's 20,000 new car dealers, met members of the House of Representatives and Senate in Washington on Wednesday, asking them to intervene with the Obama administration's autos task force on planned reductions.

"A rapid cut of dealers is a bad idea," NADA Chairman John McEleney said in a statement.

McEleney said his organization does not oppose dealer consolidation, but believes the administration and the companies are moving too fast.
NADA leaders are scheduled to meet the U.S. auto task force on Thursday.

The task force, headed by former investment banker Steve Rattner, is driving the restructuring of both companies, which are planning to close plants, cut jobs and restructure dealer lineups to establish viability.

GM, which is operating with $15.4 billion of U.S. government loans, has to cut debt and operating costs and present a new restructuring plan to officials by June 1 to avoid a government-controlled bankruptcy.

Both GM and Chrysler have faced pressure to cut struggling dealerships to bring their large sales networks line with those run by more successful rivals led by Toyota Motor Corp. Toyota, No. 2 in U.S. sales behind GM, has about 1,200 dealerships in the country.

Chrysler is using the bankruptcy process to move faster toward that goal, while GM plans to tell its dealerships they are being dropped for not meeting standards for capitalization and profitability.

GM wants to cut its dealer network to 3,605 from over 6,246 at the end of 2008. But it has not specified how it would achieve that and how many dealerships would be involuntarily terminated and how many it expected to go bankrupt or shut down on their own.

Chrysler's plan has remained under wraps.

GM Chief Executive Friz Henderson said on Monday the automaker was completing its plans for dealership consolidation this week.

Chrysler Chief Executive Bob Nardelli said in a memo to staff on Tuesday, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters, that the automaker would determine how to organize its dealer networks during the rest of the week.

Carroll Smith of Monument Chevrolet in Houston, one of the 100 new car dealers who lobbied lawmakers in Washington, warned that a rapid wind down of outlets could lead to a flood of new vehicles hitting the market simultaneously at much lower prices, further undercutting hard-hit dealers.
"Dealers are not cost. What we are retail and distribution," Smith added.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE54C64K20090513?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
 
Not a single dent or scratch in the bed and looks like a relatively fresh paint job. Just over 60K miles in 32 years. Working hard I doubt. Maybe "lost" for years at DRMO. :laugh:

I never said it didn't make an adequate pickup once you got the fuel leaks fixed and the electrical system working. Just stay on the pavement or if on gravel go slow or you will break something. It was a failure as a tactical vehicle (M- series) and any time loaded close to max cargo weight and taken in to an off road environment it would break down or just plain break.
 
Not a single dent or scratch in the bed and looks like a relatively fresh paint job. Just over 60K miles in 32 years. Working hard I doubt. Maybe "lost" for years at DRMO. :laugh:
 
...

And the M-880 series...anyone who ever dealt with them knows what a POS the entire run was.
.

An M-880 - now for sale on E-bay:

It's been hard at work for the taxpayers for 32 years. Pretty good, if you ask me.

dfcb_12.JPG


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-Dodge-M880-CUCV-4X4-Pickup-Truck-Very-Low-Miles_W0QQitemZ300312038496QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitary_Vehicles?hash=item45ebfe0c60&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308


BY the way- the military selected and bought the M880 long before Chrysler asked for loans- this one is a 1977 M880. Chrysler got federal loan guarantees, as a result of the Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979, which wasn't actually signed into law until 1980. Chrysler stock took off, and the government made a nice profit as a result.





 
Now, ol' buddy, don't spend TOO much time away. We'd miss you too much! And I don't want to be the only one on the board who's fingers refuse to spell correctly! :cheesy:

On a much more serious note, I do know that part of the reason our country has higher costs is because we value the sanctity of every life, not just the most viable ones. A couple of decades ago, I had twins that were born too early and died in a NICU, but before they passed I was gratefully astounded at the measures that were taken to try to save them. Just a few years ago, my daughter had twins that were born too early, and they are both healthy toddlers now, mainly from the heroic measures that were taken by the wonderful people who worked in the NICU.

So I truly have a gut-level belief in the truth of your last post. :) And you don't need to thank me for caring. We're a family on this MB. Sometimes a disfunctional one :laugh: but a family, nevertheless. And caring is what families do.

Lady
 
CB, my good friend, I'm sorry that the current administration has raised your blood pressure. That's just not good for you, you know. :)

This blue dog democrat could point out the constitutionality of things like the mis-named Patriot Act, and you and I could go back and forth, and neither of us would budge the other's point of view.

I have a different suggestion. Let's both go outside for a bit and smell the fresh air, and see how much those fledgling tomato plants have grown since the last time we checked, and look at the buds on the roses. That will be a lot more productive thing for both of us to do. ;)

Love ya!
Lady

Thanks Lady,

I'll going to do my best to spend much more time away smelling the roses. But one last comment, I run another board for heart patients for the last 5 years, a lot from different countries, that have socializd medicine and to a person, they say the biggest mistake the US can make will be to adopt a European, UK or Canadian style medical plan, because it doesn't work and now has become so expensive that the young and old are allowed to die, if some faceless gov't drone says the return is not worth the money spent. This is from many folks that live with this type of medicine and we here think it the cats meow.

And you wonder why I get frustrated by the unknowledgeable that have never experience it. Well then so be, hopefully everyone here's future children will meet a specific size, because in those countries, babies that don't meet a certain size and/or weight are allowed to die and don't count towards the countries baby mortality rate. That's why ours is so much igher than those countries, because we go to extremes to save them all. I know, my brother worked NICU for over 15 years. That's what those ignorant of socialized medicine don't realize and that's real sad, people are making a decision of such importance without all the facts.

Well, we're going to have to suffer and have the young and old that are no longer productive allow to die, before we believe it, because it's happening now in foreign countries, its just our MSM is not reporting it. And these countries are also right now not prescribing meds for older folks that they used to prescribe. We don't here that over here, but folks think it's just nutty, paranoid CB rambling on. I'll admt to it, but I'll also have the fats before I start these little rants. :nuts:

I guess like a mule some people need to be hit between the eyes like a rented mule, before they can believe it. It's in the foreign papers, but you sure won't find it in our MSM.

Thanks for caring,
CB
 
CB, my good friend, I'm sorry that the current administration has raised your blood pressure. That's just not good for you, you know. :)

This blue dog democrat could point out the constitutionality of things like the mis-named Patriot Act, and you and I could go back and forth, and neither of us would budge the other's point of view.

I have a different suggestion. Let's both go outside for a bit and smell the fresh air, and see how much those fledgling tomato plants have grown since the last time we checked, and look at the buds on the roses. That will be a lot more productive thing for both of us to do. ;)

Love ya!
Lady
 
Thanks James,

I didn't really need to even ask the question. since the answer is it's always the evil right that causes all the problems, thank goodness we have the messiah, his brown shirts and the libs at the helm to bring eutopia to the world, since they have all the answers. Our troubles are all over. If we'd only known that one party rule, wait now we can have a one world gov't would've been the answer to our prayers.:rolleyes: We should've done it over 200 years ago. What were those crazy founding fathers thinking of. People now have all the answers and have diligently studied history so as not to make the same mistake twice.... yeah that's the ticket :rolleyes:

The answer to all the problems of the world, it's the rights fault. I'ts gotten so tiresome to here this parrotting everytime. Well now the left has it all so day is saved. But I've never seen a liberal yet take responsibility for anything wrong. It's always someones elses fault. If they put as much effort in actually sovling problems, instead of finding who to blame, we'd already be our of this mess. But lets keep pumping out the money, cause that's really worked for us for years.

Well at least prosperity is just around the corner for all our future generations, if we can just keep those evil conservatives out of the way.

I feel so much better now. More regulation and nore government, we know how efficient big govefrnment is, especially now that the elite are in charge and can help us poor knuckle draggers muddle thru life.;)

That's it for me. To many fricking socialists out their and they;ve decided the constitution has outlived it's usefulness, becasue from what I read and see must people don't really give a damn what happens to the US Constitution as long as they get their check and things paid for. JFK's famous saying has just been reversed...what can I get from the gov't, not what can I do for the country.

So have at it.:(

CB
 
Too big to fail?

We didn't break them up because the political right was all gung-ho to reduce regulation. They spent the last 30 years yelling that government needed to get out of the way of business and let them grow bigger. So we did. ...
Can you say "repeal of Glass-Steagall"? I knew you could.:worried:

Lady
 
If companies were to big to fail, why didn't we break them up like Ma Bell and Standard oil?

Curious minds want to know.

CB

Too big to fail?

We didn't break them up because the political right was all gung-ho to reduce regulation. They spent the last 30 years yelling that government needed to get out of the way of business and let them grow bigger. So we did.

Now, we're left with multi-national Banks that are too big to fail, and multi-national corporations that are too big to fail.

And, since they are no longer just single-country entities, if one country tries to regulate them, they simply move all the assets to another country with less regulation.

We were able to break apart Ma Bell because it was an American company.

We were able to break apart Standard Oil because it was an American company.

You can't pass a law in Congress to regulate BP Petroleum, Exxon, JP Morgan, or Barclays- they operate on too many continents for any single government to regulate them properly.
 
Come to think of it Pess..you're right..The G-cans we drove in the field ( I was in charge our sector motor pool) was all these POS Dodges and Chryslers...Man, those Aries K cars could barely get out of their own way...:sick:
 
And isn't this the second time for Chrysler? Remember the K car? :eek:

Yes I do and I also remember that any commercial type vehicle the Air Force bought for years was a Chrysler product. I was told this was not so and I do believe that staff cars for higher ranks were likely something that would not fall apart in the first month.

Chrysler had quality control problems for years. I drove a lot of D200 crew cab 4x4 pickups over the years, the last decent ones were 1970 models. I picked up a brand new 78 at the motor pool, filled it with gas and at the first stopsign I had about 3 inches of gasoline on the floor. The gas tank had never been sealed at the top. My fault...shoulda checked the structeral integrity of the entire vehicle before taking it (or was it the CMSgt in charge of vehicle maintenance trying to get out of his fuc*up...nah a Chief would NEVER do that)

And the M-880 series...anyone who ever dealt with them knows what a POS the entire run was.

Myself or people I worked with were stranded a lot by these so called "power wagons" and usually were told not to take them off the pavement. Fat chance some of the places we routinely had to go. We definitely missed the old IHs, slow but indestructible.

I submit that the first bailout in 79 hurt national defense because Chryslers vehicles were not "mission ready" or road worthy.
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