Stimulus Package

Buster said:
I'm usually not very good with numbers..but this article seems defeatist, that if only $194B of the $787B is all that has been spent/used..then the $593B remaining of the balance should make a bigger impression than the $194B has...or am I missing something?:confused:
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If you missed it I did also. I got the same defeatist feel from her comments also and the numbers are pretty straight forward.
 
CountryBoy said:
Romer: Impact of stimulus will level off

WASHINGTON — A top White House economist says spending from the $787 billion economic stimulus has already had its biggest impact on economic growth and will likely not contribute to significant expansion next year.

Christina Romer, the chair of President Barack Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, said Thursday that the $194 billion already spent gave a jolt to the economy that contributed to growth in the second and third quarters of the year. She told a congressional panel that by the middle of next year, the impact of the stimulus will level off. Romer said spending so far has saved or created 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs but warned that unemployment will remain high, above 9.5 percent, through the end of 2010.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/aptopstories/story/945027.html#

CB
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I'm usually not very good with numbers..but this article seems defeatist, that if only $194B of the $787B is all that has been spent/used..then the $593B remaining of the balance should make a bigger impression than the $194B has...or am I missing something?:confused:
 
Romer: Impact of stimulus will level off

WASHINGTON — A top White House economist says spending from the $787 billion economic stimulus has already had its biggest impact on economic growth and will likely not contribute to significant expansion next year.

Christina Romer, the chair of President Barack Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, said Thursday that the $194 billion already spent gave a jolt to the economy that contributed to growth in the second and third quarters of the year. She told a congressional panel that by the middle of next year, the impact of the stimulus will level off. Romer said spending so far has saved or created 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs but warned that unemployment will remain high, above 9.5 percent, through the end of 2010.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/aptopstories/story/945027.html#

CB
 
James48843 said:
How the stimulus plan breaks down







Infrastructure
•$46 billion for transportation projects, including $27 billion for highway and bridge construction and repair; $8.4 billion for mass transit; $8 billion for construction of high-speed railways and $1.3 billion for Amtrak; $4.6 billion for the Army Corps of Engineers; $4 billion for public housing improvements; $6.4 billion for clean- and drinking-water projects; $7 billion to bring broadband Internet service to underserved areas.

twice as much on AMT tax break, business tax breaks, and auto sales tax breaks, as there is on infrastructure spending.
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Well, since I personally submitted $2MM worth of highway infrastructure and bridge construction projects to agency higherups a few months ago-(part of an agencywide whirlwind job-creation collection of prioritized proposals-mine was determined to be high priority by local managers) on behalf of state highway department I've been collaborating with over the past 3 years, I was deeply disappointed not to see some of those funds come this direction, but nonetheless they didn't. Here is where those funds apparently went-county by county.

The county I hoped would get something out of the deal, got virtually nothing, despite being one of the most economically depressed counties in the state. Only problem is, it was depressed before the Depression hit, and priority counties were only id'd as those currently being impacted by current economic downfall. :(:(

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/...s_counties/index.html?SITE=YAHOO&SECTION=HOME
 
Bullitt said:
Politics is a moot point, a disclaimer, a way to point the finger. Guys, no form of politics could ever fix the world we've created.
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Bulitt - I deeply respect you - so just bear with me and think about this.

There are 4 Types of Civilizations (O,I, II, III)

0 - is like a spoiled child, unable to control its self-destructive temper tamtrums and outbursts. Its history is haunted by the brutal sectarian, fundamentalist, nationalist, and racial hatreds of the past. It is still split along deep fracture lines created thousands of years in the past.

I - A Plantary Civilization
Of the transitions - perhaps the most perilous one is the transition from 0 to I.

By the time we have reached (I) - we have achieved a rare political stability. This civilization is necessarily a planetary one. Only a planetary civilization can truely make the decisions that affect the planetary flow of energy and resources.


As time goes on a type I civilization will develop a planetary communication system, a planetary culture, and a planetary economy. There will be instanteous communication linking society, which will tend to gradually ERASE long-standing cultural and national barriers which previously lead to war. The divisions and scars that afflict a type 0 civilization will fade into history with the abundant material wealth and energy resources of a type I society.

So if you limit Civilization to Type 0 - then you are right.

I believe we are capable of Type I (and better).

Type II - Invulnerable to Any Natural Disaster

Type III - Conquering the Galaxy

Taken from Michio Kaku's book Visions (1997) - chapter 15 Towards a Planetary Civilization.

From my perspective I have always believed a Type I Civilization has been possible - since 1997 when I first read this book.

Until Type I is achieved then we will remain in Type 0 - and your message above is the BOTTOM LINE TRUTH. ;)
 
Bullitt said:
Re: The Visa Spicket

Politics is a moot point, a disclaimer, a way to point the finger. Guys, no form of politics could ever fix the world we've created.

When I mentioned the Visa's I don't mean simple Mexican border crossing Visa's that enable a worker to do blue collar labor on a field all day. It's going to happen, there's pressure everywhere already to open up immigration quotas to engineers from India and China. I'm talking engineers who are ready and waiting for the papers so they can contribute to things that will make a long term difference to the US in areas such energy independence.

As for the cheap labor, hey it's the world we created. Demographically, we're a dieing nation. When the baby boom generation became the yuppy generation- wining and dining on wall street and jumping for joy in the artificial wealth created from both the tech and housing bubbles- what was the point in having kids? Just party, be wealthy, spend, keep up with the Joneses and you'll be able to retire and live a life in Shangri La in 20 years.... So now we have had a second triple waterfall CRASH in 10 years in the markets just in time for the biggest generation in history to go into retirement. Now that wealth has been wiped off the board in multiple aspects- everyone, including corporations, will continue reverting to the mean in finding ways to cut back on spending. Health care is an enormous burden on the US economy, why pay a US Citizen when you can hire some foreign national thru NAFTA and not have to worry about paying benefits? Better yet, they slack off- Goodbye. Fired. Try firing a US citizen who's a member of a union- forget about it.

I go past the local high school and kids are outside talking on cellphones. Who can they be talking to, their friends on the other side of the school? Who do you think is going to be more productive in 10 years- that foreign national fighting his way to get to the US or the US Citizen who's more concerned about seding text messages about last night's episode of American Idol?

This post has nothing to do with politics, it's simply a fact of life that people continue to turn the other cheek to and take for granted. The world we've created is similar to that of a giant ponzi scheme. There is not enough money flowing in to support the spending in the years ahead. Some day it's all going to come to a head and blow, but it's probably going to be later in my life or my kid's lives. Just like the hedge funds that based their investment models on the housing market going up forever, our government and our pension funds have based their models for future cash flow on the idea that population will continue to grow at the rabid pace of the past. The US had it's population growth bubble with the baby boom generation and is not likely to see another population growth boom like that ever again.
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Bulitt - this is fancinating - and very much a subject I've love to explore and elaborate on.

Sorry my friend, I didn't mean to turn it into a 'Political Thing' but only came on for a few minutes and noticed several things Alevin had mentioned that deeply reflected my heart and life in both her comments here and on her thread in regards to her neighbor and her incredible understanding of Mental Illness.

The main thing that caught my attention was CB - and the need to reinforce him. If Birchtree had made a comment like, "Maybe I should just stop proclaiming Bullish sentiments and stop talking altogether" - TRUST ME - I would have responded the same way.

Anyway - I'll come back to this and probably sound like a communist and be perceived as 'anti-American' - BUT reflecting on your amazingly accurate perceptions I think it will be very easy to prove that the USA is largely responsible for what has been created. First in the Mindset that dominates US Mentality (and how this Mindset has spread globally). How the USA works in union with England - Formed the Japanese Economy/German Economy and highly inflenced Europe - and undoubtedly took control of Central and South America and formed the basis for Canada's, India's, and China's Exports and Income. Last but not least - how 'we' bankrupt Russia.

Well 3 complicated admissions just arrived. But my underlying message would not be what has become of our world - but who are we as individuals and how can our life independently respond to the chaos and bring order and harmony?
 
Re: The Visa Spicket

Politics is a moot point, a disclaimer, a way to point the finger. Guys, no form of politics could ever fix the world we've created.

When I mentioned the Visa's I don't mean simple Mexican border crossing Visa's that enable a worker to do blue collar labor on a field all day. It's going to happen, there's pressure everywhere already to open up immigration quotas to engineers from India and China. I'm talking engineers who are ready and waiting for the papers so they can contribute to things that will make a long term difference to the US in areas such energy independence.

As for the cheap labor, hey it's the world we created. Demographically, we're a dieing nation. When the baby boom generation became the yuppy generation- wining and dining on wall street and jumping for joy in the artificial wealth created from both the tech and housing bubbles- what was the point in having kids? Just party, be wealthy, spend, keep up with the Joneses and you'll be able to retire and live a life in Shangri La in 20 years.... So now we have had a second triple waterfall CRASH in 10 years in the markets just in time for the biggest generation in history to go into retirement. Now that wealth has been wiped off the board in multiple aspects- everyone, including corporations, will continue reverting to the mean in finding ways to cut back on spending. Health care is an enormous burden on the US economy, why pay a US Citizen when you can hire some foreign national thru NAFTA and not have to worry about paying benefits? Better yet, they slack off- Goodbye. Fired. Try firing a US citizen who's a member of a union- forget about it.

I go past the local high school and kids are outside talking on cellphones. Who can they be talking to, their friends on the other side of the school? Who do you think is going to be more productive in 10 years- that foreign national fighting his way to get to the US or the US Citizen who's more concerned about seding text messages about last night's episode of American Idol?

This post has nothing to do with politics, it's simply a fact of life that people continue to turn the other cheek to and take for granted. The world we've created is similar to that of a giant ponzi scheme. There is not enough money flowing in to support the spending in the years ahead. Some day it's all going to come to a head and blow, but it's probably going to be later in my life or my kid's lives. Just like the hedge funds that based their investment models on the housing market going up forever, our government and our pension funds have based their models for future cash flow on the idea that population will continue to grow at the rabid pace of the past. The US had it's population growth bubble with the baby boom generation and is not likely to see another population growth boom like that ever again.
 
Steadygain said:
It's good to be back - very good - but my committments are drowning out time to interact (even on a multitasking environment).

Batteries are FULLY CHARGED - and ready to make an even bigger difference.

Always striving to set the bar a little higher - but amazingly as I do this I find things are so much different from what humans believe about the world and themselves. I find the world itself - the planet - has a SONG and this is becoming increasingly understood. I am also finding that animals (dolphins and creatures throughout) display numerous attributes that are largely in HARMONY with the SONG. We are the ones out of synch - we are the ones not only distroying the instrument itself but fighting against the HARMONY and refusing to acknowledge the SONG.

So the Greatest Challenge we face IS NOT the Economy - but it is the Instrument (the Planet) and the SONG it yeilds and stiving to restore it and be in Harmony with it. In the next 40 years everyone alive will see this is the most central underlying truth.

The Industrial Revolution in conjunction with the Atomic Age are what have most fundamentally driven our society - and Politics were forged by their influence. We as a global civilization were all convinced that no matter what we did - or how we behaved - the instrument was too big to damage. So WV shaved down its mountains and filled its valleys and streams; the rain forests were wiped out; the ocean became an ever increasing dump. Greenhouse gases excellerated at ever increasing rates.

Water - which is by far our most valuable resource - was regarded as a never ending supply that could never be damaged or significantly reduced.

So POLITICS in the future will not be driven by the Interests of the few - THE RICH AND POWERFUL - it will have to be driven by the interests of The Planet (the Song) and learning to be in Harmony with that SONG - if we are to survive.
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Maybe, but I believe that "most" of the pols are pols, because they couldn't cut it in the real world and are brainwashed from an early age that they are smarter and know better than us unwashed working stiffs. They believe they are our Royality and we left that behind. Good that you are recharged. Ya gotta believe in something. Without strong beliefs we are just empty shells to be manipulated by those in power. That could be going on now.

The environment is a big subject, especially now with the drive to find an alternative fuel, because the all have drawbacks. Just one example, the lead required for the batteries in the electric cars have turned some parts of Africa and the Indonesian area into toxic dumps, with 10X's the lead in the soil and air from the local mining, reducing the life expectancy of the people in the area. But we sure are reducing the carbon output, ;), but at what cost. That's just one little dirty secret regarding alternative fuels. So yep we gotta be careful what we do, casue the cure may be worse than the illness.

Sure didn't want to get into that heavy of a conversation. But ya know, I only worry about and try to control my little area of influence and property and that's only if I get permission from the wife. :laugh:

Good luck catching up. :D

CB
 
CountryBoy said:
Steady says :rolleyes:

Here the most central and underlying aspect it that Steady is only one individual who has his own unique 'belief system' and what he says is merely a reflection of his beliefs.

If that belief system is 'out of touch' then the expressions will equally be 'out of touch'. If they are 'in touch' - but the reader is 'out of touch' or misreads the true message - then the message will be regarded as out of touch - even if it's totally accurate.

So whatever Steady says is of little consequence - if not weighed against the backdrop of 'reality'

"My underlying thought is that 'politics' is primarily in place to give the representation that 'elected officials' are the ones in control. Their highest and most fundament purpose is to represent a shield for the real power players - that are always in the background and remain hidden and unknown. Their second priority is to represent the general population is such a way to bring stability, order, and peace."

Amen brother,

My dear brother and friend - let me elaborate before you say 'Amen'

I believe Politicians began their mindset very young in life - during a stage when their perception was one of tremendous honor and integrity. They more than likely strove to achieve the greatest status not only accidemically - but also socially. During their forming years their belief system was highly reinforced - and so they all the more were convinced that 'they could make a difference' - and the underlying purpose behind everything they did was 'For the betterment of the people'

So initially - most politicians (in my belief system) began with the concept that 'Individual Worth and Integrity' were the highest and purest goals that guided them.

Once they entered the Corrupt Established Political System (and again this is only my view - my belief - which may be wrong) they more than likely started off with very good intentions.

After taking office - they found their main endeavor WAS NOT looking out for the flock that elected them and striving to do everything possible for the interests of that flock - instead their main endeavor WAS TO GENERATE INCOME. This is not what they wanted (or intended) - but it is Reality - and the only way they could stay in office and ever hope to accomplish their 'true goal of bringing a change for the better' is only after a Huge Amount of Money was obtained.

So Politicians on the whole - are Slaves to the Money Game - and they are so boggled down by the Need to Generate Money that their is little to no time left for 'real political ambitions' or to honestly govern the flock as they initially intended.

So if you follow my belief system - Politicians are essentially forced to cater to the Rich and Powerful - not because they want to but because they have to if they are to remain in place. It is a very SAD situation because what started off as 'Pure' became corrupt and that is probably the story of almost every one of them.

but I believe their second priorty of representing the general populace, is only to the point that it improves their way of life and any improvement in ours is just an accidental byproduct or to throw us the occasional bone, so the pitchforks will not be picked up and march towards DC.

'But I believe' - and whatever that belief is will undoubtedly determine your views and perception.

Let's take me as the example. My most central and underlying goal and life long achievement was 'To Know the Brain through and through'. As this endeavor began to consume my life I gobbled up everything I could in terms of Psychology, Psychiatry, and the Principals of Internal Medicine. The more I learned - the more my thrist increased and the more I sought to discover. So this was hugely SELFISH and mostly done to fully my initial inner longing. By the time I actually got to Brain Science and discovering every little pathway and the chemical interactions involved with that particular path and all regions associated with it I pretty much knew the rest of the body through and though. I say this because deep down it is mainly My Personal Endeavor - my Selfish Desires - that fueled everything I did. This was my life and I was exceedingly satified with what I came to find and understand. FORGET my grades - the President's List (Dean's List) were secondary and unimportant compared to the inner triumph of fulfillment. But it is ONLY as this knowledge was transformed to SERVICE that the ultimate satisfaction was obtained. Yet this 'accidental byproduct' (if you will) or the 'occasional bone' others receive by my personal intervention are often Life Changing Events where by immense improvement and high quality of life is obtained and acknowleged.

I know I'm going on forever - but I believe my original ambition of 'Discovering the Brain through and through' - was every bit with the exact same desire as a Politician thinking 'I'm striving to become the President'. Both of us had Extreme Goals - and both Goals were the furthest reaching and most powerful goals by which we could make a difference in this world - where our influence would have the greatest possible impact on society at large.

I tell you all this - simply to reflect that perhaps Politicians themselves may inwardly be the most Beautiful People alive and their original desires and ambitions were wholly for the real benefit of the population at large. They truely wanted to be in place to make a difference and display the highest morals and integrity.

It may be The System itself did not allow that to happen; that The System forced them to generate more and more Money to survive and the only way they could remain in place is by 'learning to play the game'. The worst PART of that GAME - is having to reflect the outward appearence that 'They are happy, satisfied, and fulfilled' in being 'IN PLACE' - because that appearance is the most CENTRAL method by which their flock can determine if things are 'going well'.

It's good to see ya back and hope you had a great time and was able to recharge your batteries. :D

CB
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It's good to be back - very good - but my committments are drowning out time to interact (even on a multitasking environment).

Batteries are FULLY CHARGED - and ready to make an even bigger difference.

Always striving to set the bar a little higher - but amazingly as I do this I find things are so much different from what humans believe about the world and themselves. I find the world itself - the planet - has a SONG and this is becoming increasingly understood. I am also finding that animals (dolphins and creatures throughout) display numerous attributes that are largely in HARMONY with the SONG. We are the ones out of synch - we are the ones not only distroying the instrument itself but fighting against the HARMONY and refusing to acknowledge the SONG.

So the Greatest Challenge we face IS NOT the Economy - but it is the Instrument (the Planet) and the SONG it yeilds and stiving to restore it and be in Harmony with it. In the next 40 years everyone alive will see this is the most central underlying truth.

The Industrial Revolution in conjunction with the Atomic Age are what have most fundamentally driven our society - and Politics were forged by their influence. We as a global civilization were all convinced that no matter what we did - or how we behaved - the instrument was too big to damage. So WV shaved down its mountains and filled its valleys and streams; the rain forests were wiped out; the ocean became an ever increasing dump. Greenhouse gases excellerated at ever increasing rates.

Water - which is by far our most valuable resource - was regarded as a never ending supply that could never be damaged or significantly reduced.

So POLITICS in the future will not be driven by the Interests of the few - THE RICH AND POWERFUL - it will have to be driven by the interests of The Planet (the Song) and learning to be in Harmony with that SONG - if we are to survive.
 
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alevin said:
CB (and Bullitt). I respect both you guys, a lot. You each have huge amounts of integrity. And I am ok with what you each have to say much of the time, it's your opinion and view point, and I even agree with much of what you say, even if I wish it weren't so. So I want to clear the air a little more if I can.

I do give creedance to the fact that there are many here who don't want the lowest-paying jobs and we can't get people here to take them, so we do need to bring in new people who want those jobs. I live in ag country. I get it.

The thing that really bothered me this morning was the way-too easy assumption that came across in the remarks, that people from over the border are willing to work harder and are more deserving of the low-paying jobs that hardworking people here DO already have and want to keep and are working hard to keep.

And that it's ok for people from over the border to undercut wages that are already too low for a single young clean-living American citizen to live on, even when he doesn't carry debt and has no dependents, and that it's ok for a non-citizen to take away even that job from a responsible young citizen who wants it. My nephew being case in point, but not the only one out there. Talking about non-citizens just waltzing in and taking those jobs because they deserve them more, felt like a slap in the family face this morning. With that, I'll shut up and hold my peace from here on in on the subject but needed to get that one squared up. I didn't explain myself very well earlier.

And oh by the way CB, I'm coming around to the Term Limits viewpoint after all these years, I'm willing to go shoulder to shoulder with you on that one. Both parties.
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Alevin,

I understand where you are coming from and I'm sorry if I came across as glib. Personally I'd erect a wall and shoot anyone coming over it. I'm a very strong supporter of a heavily guarded border, not only for the obvious security reasons, but also if this flood of illegals were stopped, then pay would go up and the hard working Americans would be able to find a job that pays a living wage. Yeah we'd pay more, but in the long run health care for one would come down, because we wouldn't being carry the load (our taxes) of all the illegals flooding our ER's, which are going out of business, so it would all probably come out in the wash, cost wise.

But I've stopped fighting that illegal battle, because until we have another 9/11 and they (pols) can prove beyond a doubt and then be willing to admit it, that the terrorist just waltzed across our borders, then nothig will ever be done by either party. The Dems wants the votes they bring and the Reps want the cheap labor, so I've given up until the unspeakable occurs, at which time, maybe, just maybe, the pols will take the majority of Americans viewpoints who want to shut down our borders to the illegals.

I ready to march with ya on the term limits and of course on both parties. :D

CB
 
Steady says

"My underlying thought is that 'politics' is primarily in place to give the representation that 'elected officials' are the ones in control. Their highest and most fundament purpose is to represent a shield for the real power players - that are always in the background and remain hidden and unknown. Their second priority is to represent the general population is such a way to bring stability, order, and peace."

Amen brother, but I believe their second priorty of representing the general populace, is only to the point that it improves their way of life and any improvement in ours is just an accidental byproduct or to throw us the occasional bone, so the pitchforks will not be picked up and march towards DC.

It's good to see ya back and hope you had a great time and was able to recharge your batteries. :D

CB
 
CB (and Bullitt). I respect both you guys, a lot. You each have huge amounts of integrity. And I am ok with what you each have to say much of the time, it's your opinion and view point, and I even agree with much of what you say, even if I wish it weren't so. So I want to clear the air a little more if I can.

I do give creedance to the fact that there are many here who don't want the lowest-paying jobs and we can't get people here to take them, so we do need to bring in new people who want those jobs. I live in ag country. I get it.

The thing that really bothered me this morning was the way-too easy assumption that came across in the remarks, that people from over the border are willing to work harder and are more deserving of the low-paying jobs that hardworking people here DO already have and want to keep and are working hard to keep.

And that it's ok for people from over the border to undercut wages that are already too low for a single young clean-living American citizen to live on, even when he doesn't carry debt and has no dependents, and that it's ok for a non-citizen to take away even that job from a responsible young citizen who wants it. My nephew being case in point, but not the only one out there. Talking about non-citizens just waltzing in and taking those jobs because they deserve them more, felt like a slap in the family face this morning. With that, I'll shut up and hold my peace from here on in on the subject but needed to get that one squared up. I didn't explain myself very well earlier.

And oh by the way CB, I'm coming around to the Term Limits viewpoint after all these years, I'm willing to go shoulder to shoulder with you on that one. Both parties.
 
alevin said:
Beware of tagging everyone in need as layabouts-it's a stereotype and very unfair to those who are trying and doing their best to keep noses above water and still drowning.
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Unemployment is soaring with no end in sight.

It's very doubtful that any of us don't have some nephews - or other relatives and close friends - that aren't out of work and facing uncertainties and hard times. This is a very difficult stage of our economic history.

I sure know what you're saying Alevin - as this is one time where the food lines don't distinguish between those who are use to milking the system for all it's worth and those who have done everything possible to stay afloat. So this is one time we all need to count our blessings with every breath and strive more and more to have a heart that hurts and feels for others.

CountryBoy said:
I'm tired of a lot of things that are going on the past few years and I don't have any answers.

In our society (US and Global) there are no answers that the population would ever agree to. No matter what was suggested there would undoubtedly be those in favor and those that object. As long as 'power' and 'politics' remain - it will always be 'us and them'.

Us and Them, and after all we're only oridinary men.....

With - without - it can't be helped but there's a lot of it about ...
(taken from the Dark Side of the Moon Album - Pink Floyd)

So I keep beating the drums, because I feel like if I stop, then they've won and then I might as well try to game the system like everyone else and become resigned to the fact of what we're becoming. But the day that happens will be the day I just crawl off into the woods like an old dog and lay doiwn and die, cause I've given up. I'm rambling now, so I'll shut my yap.
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Anyone remotely in touch with you knows your purpose and intentions - which are very honorable.

My underlying thought is that 'politics' is primarily in place to give the representation that 'elected officials' are the ones in control. Their highest and most fundament purpose is to represent a shield for the real power players - that are always in the background and remain hidden and unknown. Their second priority is to represent the general population is such a way to bring stability, order, and peace.

Please don't change CB - and know beyond the shadow of any doubt that most of your reflections are shared by many.

Well - that's it for me. I had 10 days worth of work waiting on me.

In these uncertain times I think it's best to regard our present condition as a 'Bear Market' with what was simply a typical Bear Rally. This way your odds of being disappointed with future dives and short term (3 month) losses can be avoided. We have increasing signs that this year will end with Traction and therefore the summer appears to be the best time to invest for the long run.
 
Yeah alevin,

I'm tired of a lot of things that are going on the past few years and I don't have any answers, except that we keep voting in the same people on both sides and until we change that, I believe things will only get worse, because these politicians will never change. Over the past few years I've become a big believer in term limits.

So I keep beating the drums, because I feel like if I stop, then they've won and then I might as well try to game the system like everyone else and become resigned to the fact of what we're becoming. But the day that happens will be the day I just crawl off into the woods like an old dog and lay doiwn and die, cause I've given up. I'm rambling now, so I'll shut my yap.

CB
 
Yah, I know you do make a distinction, CB. It's just that I get tired of the negativity. There are so many working poor and they don't get all that much recognition around here. If low-end wages had kept up with price increases for the basics, people would be more willing to take those low paying jobs, as it stands they can't, not without subsidy. IMO. When I was on minimum wage (or not much above) in my 20s in the mid-late 70's early 80's, and experienced fairly regular job switches for circumstances beyond my control, never had to go for unemployment between jobs because I had some savings, never did food stamps. What's different now? I don't believe it's all credit card debt for toys and keepin' up with the Jones.
 
alevin said:
The "Visa spicket" is already on. My 20-something hardworking nephew has been working at Lowe's the past 2 years, got health insurance finally through them. When he first started working for them, they wanted him to work MORE hours because they liked his work ethic. This past year they've been progressively cutting back hours on everyone to the point he couldn't afford his 1-bedroom apartment anymore-had to go find another in a more desperate part of the city, can barely keep food on the table and antique pickup in running order.

Now Lowe's is bringing in lower-paid immigrant workers from over the border (my mom told me last night) and my nephew thinks he's about to get laid off/fired so they can take his job and give it to the other people who will take even less money for the job. He's looking for a new job before he loses this one. He's not on food stamps-yet. Beware of tagging everyone in need as layabouts-it's a stereotype and very unfair to those who are trying and doing their best to keep noses above water and still drowning.

Nephew has his mechanics licence but can't afford the tools even if there were a job out there, that's why he's been working at Lowe's. I told my mom last night to tell him I'll borrow from my TSP to buy his tools for him if he will go after a mechanic job.
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alevin,

You should know by know from reading my posts over the past few years, what and who I consider "layabouts" and if I'm going to have to put in a disclaimer everytime I express my opinion, so as not to get someone's nose out of joint, then I'll just stop voicing my opinion, cause sometimes the nit-picking really gets old fast.

I'm sorry for your nephew and hope things work our for him.

CB
 
CountryBoy said:
it was the economics, I was talking about, but turning on the Visa spicket would do the trick, but I'm really not sure bHo wants that type of hard working individual right now.CB
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The "Visa spicket" is already on. My 20-something hardworking nephew has been working at Lowe's the past 2 years, got health insurance finally through them. When he first started working for them, they wanted him to work MORE hours because they liked his work ethic. This past year they've been progressively cutting back hours on everyone to the point he couldn't afford his 1-bedroom apartment anymore-had to go find another in a more desperate part of the city, can barely keep food on the table and antique pickup in running order.

Now Lowe's is bringing in lower-paid immigrant workers from over the border (my mom told me last night) and my nephew thinks he's about to get laid off/fired so they can take his job and give it to the other people who will take even less money for the job. He's looking for a new job before he loses this one. He's not on food stamps-yet. Beware of tagging everyone in need as layabouts-it's a stereotype and very unfair to those who are trying and doing their best to keep noses above water and still drowning.

Nephew has his mechanics licence but can't afford the tools even if there were a job out there, that's why he's been working at Lowe's. I told my mom last night to tell him I'll borrow from my TSP to buy his tools for him if he will go after a mechanic job.
 
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