Retiring in 5 years...

kb9nvh

TSP Strategist
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I"m all in G and have been since 2009. I want to retire in 5 years and I'm looking at this as an opportunity to get back in. I'm leaning towards doing it today.
Maybe compromise and get into the L2030 or something instead of slamming it into the C and S funds as I used to do when I figured go big or go home. Learned my lesson in 2000 and was more cautious after that (much to the detriment of my earnings).

So, since this isint the correction we were looking for...that means it will come down the road closer to my retirement. Any opinions..just go with one of the L funds and be done with it?
 
Welcome kb9nvh! You never know exactly when a correction or bear market will appear or how severe they'll be, so you could be waiting a long time - or you could get the opportunity next week. The S-fund has taken quite a hair cut so some nibbling here would not be a bad move. The I-fund is also way down, but you never know how bad the European economy will get. Did it overreact already, does it have more to go, etc.?

So, if you are not going to trade or time the market like many of us do here, you would be considered a buy and hold investor, in which case buying some on this pullback / correction (which the S and I are in) is the way to do that. Just ask Birchtree :)

Of course our slogan here is, "friends don't let friends buy and hold", but it is an option.

Good luck!
 
got back in yesterday.

Yesterday I moved 50% of it to the s and c funds. And kept 50% in G. Decided if it does drop more I'll move the rest back in when we really hit bottom.
 
I"m all in G and have been since 2009. I want to retire in 5 years and I'm looking at this as an opportunity to get back in. I'm leaning towards doing it today.
Maybe compromise and get into the L2030 or something instead of slamming it into the C and S funds as I used to do when I figured go big or go home. Learned my lesson in 2000 and was more cautious after that (much to the detriment of my earnings).

So, since this isint the correction we were looking for...that means it will come down the road closer to my retirement. Any opinions..just go with one of the L funds and be done with it?

Assuming you are talking about:

50% G
25% C
25% S​

Your annual return will be about 3% + inflation
Your variance/risk is 6%

That is a lot of risk for very little return. The L2020 is 4%/6%, the L2030 is 5%/7%.

There is, however, a more important question. My guess is that you were not one of the Farsight Superheros who scooted from the 2001 downturn and the 2008 crash a week before it happened. I'm guessing that is the case because you did not get back into the market after the 2008 crash. If you had the farsight of a superhero you would have jumped back into equities. So, your idea is to get back into the market now after a few of points are taken off the bull but before the market reaches correction status. And, with no time to recover from market losses. The L2020 lost 23% in 2008, the L2030 lost 28%. Your allocation seems far less diversified (you are in cash, U.S. Big Stocks, and the rest of the U.S. Stock Market) and will likely be far more dangerous than those two.

You have five years to go before retirement. Sock money away and find an allocation that allows you to sleep at night while giving you a chunk of market returns. Maybe start with the allocations presented in the L2020 fund and add a little more risk by taking five to ten points off their G Fund holdings and splitting that among the C/S/I funds. Any more than that and you are in the L2030 - which means you have fifteen years till retirement.

As one of the chaps that did not lose much in 2008 all I can say is beware. I migrated money from G/F into C/S/I in late October, 2008 thinking the worst was past. I got hit with multiple 5%+ declines in single days before I moved back to safety. Does losing 15% of your existing holdings before you bail sound like a risk worth taking??? And, that is only going to happen if your brain doesn't convince you that you are not at bottom.
 
Humm...so if c/s make like 15% next year and g makes 2% that should be effectively 8.5%? Am I doing that wrong?
 
Humm...so if c/s make like 15% next year and g makes 2% that should be effectively 8.5%? Am I doing that wrong?

If the C/S loses like 15% next year and the G makes 2% than your annual return would be -6.5%.

If you are thinking about pulling 4% of your holdings every year during retirement - something that should be good to go in normal bond/equity markets - than losing 6.5% is like losing more than two years of income. Right now, it is not really safe to think of pulling 4% annually from your assets, think in terms of 2% - 3%. I still think 4% is a good number over the long haul, but...

In 2008 the C lost 37% and the S lost 39% - and the hits kept on hitting for the first quarter of 2009.

Can you survive a loss of 9 retirement income years? I know we are all farsighted, but I also know we are not all farsighted. Look at the AutoTrader archives. Very, very few got through with less than a 15% loss in 2008. Only 35% of the folks in 2008 loss less than 15%. How many of those then turned around and made it back in 2009. Not many, not many. Numbers do not lie. Kb9nvh, these are the smart folks. Folks who care and pay attention. Losing 15% next year could very well take you from steak to potatoes. If I were to lose 25% I could make it up over the next 15 years, you only have 4 at that point.

At five years till retirement you should be planning on what you will need and then play risk games with assets in excess of that number. There are two ways of attaining the Alpo Meal Deal Retirement Plan:
  1. Taking no risk during the accumulation years
  2. Taking risk during the distribution years
You see both ways of setting up the Alpo Retirement Plan on this site. The folks using plan (1) always talk about buying the dips - but always seem to churn around the zero mark. Be aware, there are those near or in retirement where a 2% - 5% return is good to go so they are not on the Alpo Plan - they have already made theirs. The folks using plan (2) are the folks who do not reduce risk when they need distributions. They are the folks who drop off the site after yammering about the FED or the Rapid Traders or bad luck or something. Very, very depressing. One very odd example of a retired chap not reducing risk is BirchTree. I like this chap - he got me back into the market in April 2008 when I was wetting my pants. He is always in and always a bull. He is like 25 years old or something. Not really, he is probably 40 years older than that. But - and this is a HUGE butt - his TSP account is play money and not integral to his retirement. Is that where you are? Do you have lots of liquid assets in other accounts and holdings? God bless you BT, but we normal serfs are playing with our food money;).
 
I"m all in G and have been since 2009. I want to retire in 5 years and I'm looking at this as an opportunity to get back in. I'm leaning towards doing it today.
Maybe compromise and get into the L2030 or something instead of slamming it into the C and S funds as I used to do when I figured go big or go home. Learned my lesson in 2000 and was more cautious after that (much to the detriment of my earnings).

So, since this isint the correction we were looking for...that means it will come down the road closer to my retirement. Any opinions..just go with one of the L funds and be done with it?

I think I made my point. You behaved fairly normally. You took the full loss available during the 2008 crash, then ran to safety, and then never felt secure enough to get back into the market during the 120% recovery. Now, you want back in. Talk to a good financial adviser (I only play one on TSPTalk - I am a computer programmer, a DBA, a server administrator, and whatever else the goobers on top of me want me to do). You need an allocation set for your own goals and your risk acceptance.
 
This makes my stomach hurt!!

so does a kick in the nuts. but this so far has only been a little tickle with a gentle squeeze at the end.

it is important that each investor finds where they lay on their own personal risk/reward curve.

birchtree's are made from brass, like those statues you see on wall street. others are made from jello like you see at a potluck in utah. it's all good hollywood, the market needs both brass and jello to work.
 
This makes my stomach hurt!!
Take some Maalox. Take a deep breath. Check with your HR people about getting an estimated annuity amount for your projected retirement date. Get a projected Social Security retirement amount. They don't mail them any more and you have to go to ssa.gov and create an account. Once you get these two figures you can look at how much more you feel you will need to live on after retirement. Then look at your TSP balance. Plan, plan, plan.

As far as what to do with the TSP account...no one here will advise you. I have no idea if the market is going to go up again nor does anyone else here. I am betting on it going up some overall in the next five years.

You didn't state how many years service you have or your age. You don't have to share that. If you are not in a mandatory retirement situation you could consider working longer. I had to confront that and suck it up that I had to work well in to my 60s.

Alternatively you could check out at MRA+20 and get another job.

Best of luck.

PO
 
I'm 55 so I have the option of working longer. I'm on fers and have about 490 in tsp. Own about 250k of house no mortgage. About due for a new car and have money aside for that.
 
I'm 55 so I have the option of working longer. I'm on fers and have about 490 in tsp. Own about 250k of house no mortgage. About due for a new car and have money aside for that.

Your not in bad shape. As PessOptimist pointed out, you can project both your pension and social security. Your 490K in TSP can safely generate $15K to $20K per year inflation adjusted. And, you have five years of investing left. If you find an allocation that is a bit safer than the one you have which makes 5% over inflation (total of 7% in today's environment) than you will have about $720K. That $720K will result in a safe, inflation adjusted income stream of a little more than $30K/year till age 90. If you retire at 65 your nest egg will be approximately a million. That will let you pull in a little more than $40K/year. If you want to be safer you can pull a little less and your nest egg should last forever.

A very special book for initiating an investment allocation is Ric Edelman's "The Lies About Money". There are 40 allocations in it and a short quiz to kinda help you find one. His site is exceptional and his radio show is very, very good. At the moment I am typing this I am listening to his show. His free 'Guide to Portfolio Selection' is a valuable resource. That is what you need.

And, you need to spend a little money and find a good adviser. Retirement investing is not gambling and da'Boyz and the greedy kleptocratic CEOs want to make money too. When they make money you do as well. Using Edelman's site and books I found the following three allocations for my baselines:

  • Aggressive: 2% G, 15% F, 48% C, 19% S, 16% I Expected Return: 6%, Expected Variance: 9%
  • Normal: 12% G, 22% F, 39% C, 15% S, 12% I Expected Return: 5%, Expected Variance: 8%
  • Conservative: 12% G, 27% F, 37% C, 13% S, 11% I Expected Return: 5%, Expected Variance: 7%
In your situation you should never touch the Aggressive allocation. The way you read this is as follows: The Conservative Allocation (which should be your 'Normal Allocation') will generate an annual return of (5% + Inflation (say 2%)) +- 7% Variance (Risk) approximately 2/3rds of the time. That means that my Conservative allocation will generate between 0% and 14% in any one year about 66% of the time. If you extend the tails to 95% of the time the range extends to -7% and +21%. To contrast, the C Fund generally returns between -8% and +26% of the time. The S Fund is even more variant. And, between you and I, I would not count on the higher numbers:p. The Expected Return + Inflation has the highest chance of being met by far. And, something like 2008 messes with everything because all asset classes other than Cash (G) failed at the same time. Bonds (F) recovered quickly and Equities (C/S/I) powered out of the depths with muscle car gusto when they took off. But, what would happen if you were ready to retire before the ciallis took hold.

Your odd allocation should return between -1% and 11% 2/3rds of the time. My guess is it will fail far more than the numbers suggest because you cash (G) holdings cannot compensate for a correlated decline in C/S Funds. That is, those funds will likely drop or raise at the same time and you have nothing that is likely not correlated to that action. Lastly, you might want to find a scientific allocation and shift a little of the Bond (F) assets to cash if concerned or Equities (C/S/I) if in a bull mode. Bonds are kinda toppy.
 
One last resource is actually Burrocrat's Thread. There is discussion in there that pertains to the above, plus there is something about Burro's odd trend analysis that seems valuable. I can't put my finger on it, but it has value...
 
OK, I like and appreciate you guys's helping me out...I never put that much thought into historical returns and putting confidence lines around it. Makes sense and I like you conservative allocation. I'll go ahead and make that change for tomorrow. I really dont want to have to think too much about what stocks are doing and really I lost track of time (ha 6 years I've not done much except keep it in G). During the 2000 bubble I lost about 1/4 of it before I bailed..then it kept going down I figured I was a hero..then when the s&P hit 650 I thought to myself, now much lower can this really go..and considered dumping it all back in at that time. Didn't to it..I would be rich today.hahaha. Finally but it back in pretty late but still enough to make some coin. Then 2008 happened and I did about the same thing except never put it back in because I figured obama was going to ruin the economy. It was about two years ago that I realized I dont know **** about the stockmarket.




One last resource is actually Burrocrat's Thread. There is discussion in there that pertains to the above, plus there is something about Burro's odd trend analysis that seems valuable. I can't put my finger on it, but it has value...
 
Hey kb9nvh,
Glad you are taking all advice as constructive. I am not trying to be mean. Some describe me as pragmatic which I think is a big work for a**h*le. Curmudgeon is another descriptive term used in the past. As Boghie states you are not in bad shape. At least as far as many of us would think.
I too have the house paid off and as there are no plans to move am dumping money in to the pit to upgrade major systems with the idea of not having to replace them after retirement. No guarantee that the strategy will work 100%.
I like your statement and own it myself:
I dont know **** about the stockmarket
I chose an allocation myself and the co/owner of the TSP can live with and mostly stay there. Not always the best choice as I am now lamenting a $10k+ loss in the last 30 days. I did somehow manage to keep the 2008 loss to about .35% and was positive for 09. I never have figured out what would have happened if I had made more timely moves as living in the pasture is good for ruminants…
I joined TSPTalk about that time and have learned much. I have also come to enjoy the social aspect of the MB and may come across as not serious. There are mixed opinions about this as within any group.
You can find stories about pastures in burrocrat’s thread but also what Boghe stated.
One other thing I wanted to mention about FERS. If you are planning on sticking around until you are 60, two more years will get you an annuity multiplier of 1.1% under the “62+20” rule. That can be significant and ask your HR people to figure that scenario too. If you get nowhere with your HR people being able to do that for you, let us know and we will point you to some other resources.
Best of luck to you.
PO
 
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