Oil Slick Stuff

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Viva_La_Migra said:
Yep, I'm not Cherokee enough to get benefits. That's okay, the VA gives me a little gas money every month, so it's all good.
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I'm something like 1/16th. When answering the question of race on most forms, you can answer any race that is in your background EXCEPT American Indian unless you have actual ties to your tribe. WTF?!? That's just wrong!
 
NiteFlyer said:
I'm something like 1/16th. When answering the question of race on most forms, you can answer any race that is in your background EXCEPT American Indian unless you have actual ties to your tribe. WTF?!? That's just wrong!
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Grandma lived in SC, they ran all of the Indians in SC to other states so it would have been really hard for me to go to the reservation.
 
Locally, gasoline jumped up overnight to $4.15 a gallon.

Thankfully, I don't use the stuff myself.

I am content with $2.99 alternative fuel.
It is nice to have a choice.

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American-made fuel- E-85 .

The money goes to American farmers--not Arab sheiks.
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With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile


[TD="class: nrml"] The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A. The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
[/TD]
The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
Some Ethanol proponents claim it doesn't hurt their mileage, but this goes against physics, and you will not find the ethanol lobby making such fraudulent claims--they could be sued. But just to be sure, zFacts analyzed all of EPA's ethanol mileage tests for one year and, big surprise, ethanol gave exactly 2/3 the mileage of gasoline.
Now there is one possible loophole and it is used by a Swedish sports car, the SABA 9-5 Bio-power. Here's the trick. Higher compression ratios make engines more efficient, and because of its high octane, ethanol can take a higher compression ratio. The Bio-power is turbo charged and when it uses E85 it switches to a higher compression ratio. It still gets fewer mpg on ethanol, but it does a little better. Unfortunately it's very expensive. An easier approach is to use diesel, which also gives you a high compression ratio and mileage as good as a hybrid at less cost. That's why all big trucks are diesel.
The USDA tells us that ethanol cost 57¢ more per gallon on average over the last 25 years (and it still does). Put that together with the fact that it takes 1.53 gallons to equal a gallon of gasoline.

With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile
 
a box of cereal is a box of cereal, right? who cares if it only goes 3 bowls instead of 4? he probably just has big bowls.
 
nnuut said:
With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile


[TD="class: nrml"] The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A. The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost [/TD]
The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
... But just to be sure, zFacts analyzed all of EPA's ethanol mileage tests for one year and, big surprise, ethanol gave exactly 2/3 the mileage of gasoline.
N
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Um, yes, that is correct, that the EPA numbers reflect the lower BTU content of ethanol.

This is NOT a big surprise- however, because THE EPA DOES NOT TEST USING E85. They only CALCULATE THE ESTIMATE by taking the gasoline mileage and MULTIPLYING BY ethanol's lower energy content.


In the REAL WORLD, however, the numbers don't line up that way. Those cars that use software to adjust fuel mixture to optimize for E85, such as the Ford Focus, and those that have "direct injection engines" do FAR BETTER than the EPA's numbers would suggest.

The Buick Verano, for example, gets about 10% lower miles per gallon on E85, not 25% FEWER. That's a fact.

But hey- you can believe what you want to believe. It's a free country.
 
James48843 said:
THE EPA DOES NOT TEST USING E85. They only CALCULATE THE ESTIMATE by taking the gasoline mileage and MULTIPLYING BY ethanol's lower energy content.
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if the epa can't calculate the correct numbers then what are we paying them for? i think we just found our next sequestration neck for the chopping block.

The Buick Verano, for example, gets about 10% lower miles per gallon on E85, not 25% FEWER. That's a fact.
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show me the carfax.
 
Would somebody PLEASE nudge the Phonograph..It seems to be stuck in the same old spot again...geeez..
deadhorse.gif
 
James48843 said:
Um, yes, that is correct, that the EPA numbers reflect the lower BTU content of ethanol.

This is NOT a big surprise- however, because THE EPA DOES NOT TEST USING E85. They only CALCULATE THE ESTIMATE by taking the gasoline mileage and MULTIPLYING BY ethanol's lower energy content.


In the REAL WORLD, however, the numbers don't line up that way. Those cars that use software to adjust fuel mixture to optimize for E85, such as the Ford Focus, and those that have "direct injection engines" do FAR BETTER than the EPA's numbers would suggest.

The Buick Verano, for example, gets about 10% lower miles per gallon on E85, not 25% FEWER. That's a fact.

But hey- you can believe what you want to believe. It's a free country.
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Really? May ask what make and model automobile are you driving?
 
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[h=2]The great ethanol debate
Putting E85 to the test[/h]
To better judge ethanol's strengths and weaknesses, we decided to buy a flex-fuel vehicle (FFV) and put E85 to the test. E85 is an ethanol mixture promoted as an alternative to gasoline.
We put our 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe FFV through our full series of fuel-economy and acceleration tests while running on each fuel. When running on E85 there was no significant change in acceleration. Fuel economy, however, dropped across the board. In highway driving, gas mileage decreased from 21 to 15 mpg; in city driving, it dropped from 9 to 7 mpg. You could expect a similar decrease in gas mileage in any current FFV.
We also took our Tahoe to a state-certified emissions-test facility near our test track in Connecticut and had a standard emissions test performed. We found a significant decrease in smog-forming oxides of nitrogen when using E85. However, ethanol emits acetaldehyde, which the EPA lists as a probable carcinogen and something that standard emissions-testing equipment is not designed to measure. But that might be a relatively minor evil, however.
"Acetaldehyde is bad," says James Cannon, president of Energy Futures, an alternative-transportation publication, "but not nearly as bad as some of the emissions from gasoline."
Before we could do any of that though, we had to fill up our Tahoe with E85, which was no easy task. We found it's especially difficult to get E85 in New England, near our test track. After trying all the local channels, we ended up having to mix it ourselves.
Yet, for some consumers, such as those who live in the Midwest, near where corn is grown and ethanol is produced, the fuel does offer perhaps the only readily available alternative to petroleum today.
So how did we get to the point where the government is subsidizing a fuel that gets worse fuel economy and is difficult to buy?
The ethanol story is both complex and controversial. We'll dig more deeply into the pros and cons of ethanol, learn more about how ethanol works, the government's support for it and its unintended consequences, ethanol's environmental impact, and issues with ethanol for consumers, and the future of ethanol.
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Consumer Reports
Ethanol Alternative Fuel | E85 - Consumer Reports
 
Here, E10 is $4.15 a gallon, E0 is $4.24.
E85 is $3.14 today at many stations. Lowest is $2.99.
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E85 is priced 26% lower than E0.

Again, when E85 is 26% lower than gas, and I get 12% fewer MPGs, then the better deal is E85, by far.

And it keeps the money circulating in the USA.
 
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