Moving your money to a 401(k) plan elsewhere.

[BooDog]

New to the board and am still lurking around. Not very happy with TSP and certainly not happy with the 2 trade restriction. My post on the petition...

Mar 6, 2008,

Anonymous , Virginia
As a TSP contributor my ability to maximize returns is already limited due to the delays of executing orders. With today's technology I would expect there could be some compromise. If we will be limited in our trades we should be able to get real time results. Too often I have missed returns or buy ins because of the executing delays. This costs me and therefore also costs the fund. As society learns more and more how to manage their own finances in this mostly self serve technology I feel they will take their money elsewhere in order to maximize results.

A lot of good info through out. Cheers.

 

[NewBee]

Sorry to dominate this thread with posts about Zecco but given the comments on the blog at the link below, I feel compelled to share this info. Apparently, customer service at Zecco can be SO bad that to some it has a definite odor of a scam, i.e. the more they delay you being able to trade, the more interest they get on your money.

There are a few positive comments but very few compared to the larger number of clients who say "stay away from Zecco".

I will be investigating the free trade options at Wells Fargo and Bank of America also. Don't know yet much about them. If anyone else does, please share.

http://tinyurl.com/2c3vke

or link with carriage return embedded in case the tinyurl above expires:

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2006/10/
zecco-feature-review-and-free-trades-details.html

I just wanted to write about my experience with Zecco. I still believe the TSP is the best place for the first 5% of my salary because of the Gov't matching, but I also contribute to my ROTH IRA and my account is held at Zecco.

I opened my ROTH account with Zecco in May 2007, but I've had a trading account with them since Jan 2007. Zecco originally promised 40 free trades per month, but then backtracked and changed to only 10 free trades per month if equity balance is $2,500 or more.

Believe me, I was upset when Zecco changed from 40 free trades to 10 free trades, but I still kept my account with them and plan on keeping my account with them (unless of course, another firm offers more free trades). I didn't even use 40 trades a month, but I liked having the option.

So now, I'm left with 10 free trades a month. That's okay. That gives me 5 full-round trips a month free. Online trades after that are $4.50.

I've had no problems with trade executions. I don't recall a time I've been unable to access their website to enter a trade. But it's true, customer service (live operator via phone) can sometimes take a while to get to.

Zecco charges an annual fee for its IRA accounts. It was only $30 last year, but it looks like it is now $50. (I will be extremely disappointed if this fee keeps increasing each year!) That's the only fee I've been charged with, so I can't speak to the other fees. I was charged an ACAT fee, but that fee was charged to me by Fidelity when I moved my ROTH IRA to Zecco. Fidelity charged a fee of $50, which seems in line with what Zecco is charging.

Keep in mind, Zecco is a fairly new brokerage firm. (Less than 2 years old, I believe). If that makes you uncomfortable and you feel you need a more established firm, then Zecco might not be right for you. Also, the more established firms probably have lots of other value-added features (research, free tax reporting, etc.) that Zecco does not. However, I didn't need any of that, so Zecco works for me. Besides, I don’t qualify for free trades at Wells Fargo or Bank of America since my account balances are puny. LOL!

 

[ayla]

Sorry to dominate this thread with posts about Zecco but given the comments on the blog at the link below, I feel compelled to share this info. Apparently, customer service at Zecco can be SO bad that to some it has a definite odor of a scam, i.e. the more they delay you being able to trade, the more interest they get on your money.

There are a few positive comments but very few compared to the larger number of clients who say "stay away from Zecco".

I will be investigating the free trade options at Wells Fargo and Bank of America also. Don't know yet much about them. If anyone else does, please share.

http://tinyurl.com/2c3vke

or link with carriage return embedded in case the tinyurl above expires:

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2006/10/
zecco-feature-review-and-free-trades-details.html

 

[ayla]

Zecco offers 10 free trades per month, not 40 as I wrote below by mistake:

Hope this info isn't too depressing for those of you who don't have an option to move your money away from TSP. But wanted to share this info about Zecco. This particular review is very insightful, I think. The offer of free trades definitely appears to be legit - 40 per month and from what I can find out (not at this link) this includes ETF's. (And they do have an IRA option) with apparent interest paid on cash balances.

The down side is that to this reviewer, their operation seems to be "unpolished" with inconveniences such as no phone access (or minimal anyway) making it difficult to resolve any problems if such problems arise.

His conclusion is that if you are doing simple buys and sells, he thinks its a good deal but he himself got burnt because of some delays so his enthusiasm is somewhat limited.

I'm definitely still interested but will wait until the TSP board drops the final bomb before I do something like this. I'm still hoping that maybe the limits as proposed won't happen.

http://tinyurl.com/yuzxq2

or full url with carriage return in case the tiny url above expires:

http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/
23199-test-driving-zecco-com-free-trading-but-at-a-price

 

[ayla]

Hope this info isn't too depressing for those of you who don't have an option to move your money away from TSP. But wanted to share this info about Zecco. This particular review is very insightful, I think. The offer of free trades definitely appears to be legit - 40 per month and from what I can find out (not at this link) this includes ETF's. (And they do have an IRA option) with apparent interest paid on cash balances.

The down side is that to this reviewer, their operation seems to be "unpolished" with inconveniences such as no phone access (or minimal anyway) making it difficult to resolve any problems if such problems arise.

His conclusion is that if you are doing simple buys and sells, he thinks its a good deal but he himself got burnt because of some delays so his enthusiasm is somewhat limited.

I'm definitely still interested but will wait until the TSP board drops the final bomb before I do something like this. I'm still hoping that maybe the limits as proposed won't happen.

http://tinyurl.com/yuzxq2

or full url with carriage return in case the tiny url above expires:

http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/
23199-test-driving-zecco-com-free-trading-but-at-a-price

 

[Ed]

Hey Tom --

With the recent ETAC/TSP meeting plans to continue with IFT limits, maybe you could earn some advertising dollars by inviting some of the investment brokers/funds/whatever to advertise here to appeal to those of us who might be looking for better IRA options than what TSP is turning out to be.

It may not happen overnight but given the nature of capitalism and the inherent competition associated with it, seems like if I owned a brokerage, I would be setting up some kind of a plan that might be like a TSP "clone" to appeal to those of us who have the option to move our money.

Great idea; plus "pros and cons" of moving from or staying in TSP would be extremely helpful for us soon-to-be retirees.

Ed

 

[ayla]

Hey Tom --

With the recent ETAC/TSP meeting plans to continue with IFT limits, maybe you could earn some advertising dollars by inviting some of the investment brokers/funds/whatever to advertise here to appeal to those of us who might be looking for better IRA options than what TSP is turning out to be.

It may not happen overnight but given the nature of capitalism and the inherent competition associated with it, seems like if I owned a brokerage, I would be setting up some kind of a plan that might be like a TSP "clone" to appeal to those of us who have the option to move our money.

 

[ayla]

I like FUTURES option better. I just noticed that SHY (a.k.a. my proposed substitute for the G fund) is down today.

In our Schwab account, our cash always gets interest. I just read up on it - they call it the "Schwab Cash Feature) as Futures has described if we are not using it for trades. Can't remember the rate but it doesn't "go down".

Now to see if this works with other brokers as well.

 

[FUTURESTRADER]

Since I'm investigating the options, I did some brief research last week and easily came up with some substitutes which means there are probably better ones if I spend more time looking but this is what I have so far. I'm not one of the most experienced at this so would appreciate if you would investigate further or if you find someone else who has, please report back.

S fund - AMEX:VXF
C fund - SPY:AMEX
I fund - NYSE:EFA
F fund - NYSEArca:AGG
G fund - AMEX:SHY

Next, I need to find out if these are available for trading by all or most brokers of IRA's. I'm especially interested in Zecco, Bank of America and Wells Fargo because of their "free trading" options.

(SHY) is a 1-3 yr bond fund. G fund is essentially a money market fund.

 

[FUTURESTRADER]

I asked this question in another thread, perhaps this is the more appropriate one to get an answer from.

Does anyone know if there is any alternative to preserving one’s capital as we can with the G Fund if one were to transfer their TSP accounts to accounts such as Charles Schwab or Fidelity or Ameri-Trade or any of the others mentioned above?

Your money actually goes in to a money market 'type' account from which you will trade from. That money market account usually has a pretty decent rate. I'm not sure if it is garaunteed, that's why I put 'type' in parens.

 

[ayla]

I asked this question in another thread, perhaps this is the more appropriate one to get an answer from.

Does anyone know if there is any alternative to preserving one’s capital as we can with the G Fund if one were to transfer their TSP accounts to accounts such as Charles Schwab or Fidelity or Ameri-Trade or any of the others mentioned above?

Since I'm investigating the options, I did some brief research last week and easily came up with some substitutes which means there are probably better ones if I spend more time looking but this is what I have so far. I'm not one of the most experienced at this so would appreciate if you would investigate further or if you find someone else who has, please report back.

S fund - AMEX:VXF
C fund - SPY:AMEX
I fund - NYSE:EFA
F fund - NYSEArca:AGG
G fund - AMEX:SHY

Next, I need to find out if these are available for trading by all or most brokers of IRA's. I'm especially interested in Zecco, Bank of America and Wells Fargo because of their "free trading" options.

 

[Miss_Piggy]

I asked this question in another thread, perhaps this is the more appropriate one to get an answer from.

Does anyone know if there is any alternative to preserving one’s capital as we can with the G Fund if one were to transfer their TSP accounts to accounts such as Charles Schwab or Fidelity or Ameri-Trade or any of the others mentioned above?

 

[Warrenlm]

Any inclination to seek out a non-USA broker to hold assets in foreign currency? I'm not sure what currency to bet on long term but ours may become much less a safe haven in favor of something else.

 

[Show-me]

To good to be true. Dang it, I'll have to stick to Scott.

 

[ayla]

I'm still very serious about switching to a zecco ira if TSP unlimited trading is rolled back. But wanted to post this page about "hidden costs" at zecco. Bank of America brokerage also offers free trading by the way. There's no free lunch so I'm not surprised about hidden costs.

My biggest worry is that if we have a recession and zecco gets bought out by etrade or scwab or some big broker, then the rules will probably regress and then I WILL be concerned. "No guts no glory" as they say. I still hope the TSP limits are NOT rolled back.

Here's the link about hidden costs at Zecco (which seems like many could be avoided if you wanted to be frugal.)

http://tinyurl.com/2uqghq

or spelled out with a carriage return in case the tinyurl expires:

http://mrwavetheory.blogspot.com/2006/10/
zecco-not-entirely-free-lots-of-hidden.html

Here's another link with some useful info about pros and cons. It looks to be a bit old since the latest is that the IRA zecco account has a $50 annual admin charge.

http://tinyurl.com/2og4w7

and with a carriage return in case of tinyurl expiration:

http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/
27373-is-zecco-com-any-match-for-wells-fargo-and-bank-of-america

 

[Show-me]

You can stll make good money in your TSP account - you just need more of it to work with. That's the first law of finance - you need money to make money.

Looking for a new relative? I'm available! :nuts:

 

[Birchtree]

You can stll make good money in your TSP account - you just need more of it to work with. That's the first law of finance - you need money to make money.

 

[Show-me]

Problem with that is you pay taxes on the automatic repayments that you make into your TSP account to repay a TSP loan, which partially defeats the purpose of a 401K. And you have to immediately start re-paying when you pull out the loan, with a limited payback period. Plus - if you haven't paid off the loan at retirement you have to pay it back first before getting your money - exact rules you will have to look in the TSP handbook. It's been a while since I studied TSP loans, but I did a lot of researching before pulling money out to pay a down payment on my house, so I do know some of the problems. It allowed me to make a down payment and get a fixed interest rate and not an ARM and Leg, so it was worth it to me.

I see your point.

 

[Silverbird]

Hey, I could take out a TSP loan for $10k and have a nice starter account.

Problem with that is you pay taxes on the automatic repayments that you make into your TSP account to repay a TSP loan, which partially defeats the purpose of a 401K. And you have to immediately start re-paying when you pull out the loan, with a limited payback period. Plus - if you haven't paid off the loan at retirement you have to pay it back first before getting your money - exact rules you will have to look in the TSP handbook. It's been a while since I studied TSP loans, but I did a lot of researching before pulling money out to pay a down payment on my house, so I do know some of the problems. It allowed me to make a down payment and get a fixed interest rate and not an ARM and Leg, so it was worth it to me.

 

[Show-me]

Hey, I could take out a TSP loan for $10k and have a nice starter account.