Hope we have a resolution to the debt crisis over the weekend otherwis we are screwed

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Bill was not posted until 1:45 AM this morning. Time for legal speed reading 101:
http://rules.house.gov/Media/file/PDF_112_1/Floor_Text/DEBT_016_xml.pdf
This is not a sure thing yet, don't let anyone tell you that it is. There are going to be a lot of Legislators who will want to vote this down while assuming others will vote for this, and some who will take one look at it and say "Forget this noise!"
As the old adage says, "Someone will do it. When you find Someone, please give me their phone number."
 
Silverbird said:
Bill was not posted until 1:45 AM this morning. Time for legal speed reading 101:
http://rules.house.gov/Media/file/PDF_112_1/Floor_Text/DEBT_016_xml.pdf
This is not a sure thing yet, don't let anyone tell you that it is. There are going to be a lot of Legislators who will want to vote this down while assuming others will vote for this, and some who will take one look at it and say "Forget this noise!"
As the old adage says, "Someone will do it. When you find Someone, please give me their phone number."
Click to expand...

Not etched in stone, by any means. However, somethings telling me that the Party Leaders will pull together enough votes and this review is nothing more then a formality. IMHO.
By the way, you know who misses you, right ? It's always my pleasure to stop by.
 
Interesting.

I cannot really find any difference between that version of a bill, and the last Senate Bill S. 627.

Here, compare, and you tell me the difference between the two:

Senate 627-
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.627:


And your bill you just posted from last night:
http://rules.house.gov/Media/file/PDF_112_1/Floor_Text/DEBT_016_xml.pdf


The Senate 627, was already rejected on a cloture motion in the Senate. They needed 60 votes to bring cloture, and they only got 50 votes to do that. So as I read it, there wasn't the votes before to even bring it to the floor for Senate action. And it was republicans who all voted no.


http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00122

You tell me- what is the difference in the language of the bill, that now there will be 60 votes to invoke cloture, and there will then be 51 votes to pass it in the Senate? Let alone 218 votes to pass it in the House?


I think it's going to be very crazy today.
 
ladies and gentlemen- it's a "hoodwink".

I just went through both bills. The Senate one is in fact the VERY SAME bill they rejected on Friday.

The bill Silverbird posted at the House bill, is in fact the same bill that only got 218 votes on Friday, and that the Senate rejected in a Cloture vote Friday night.

Anyone who says that there is suddenly agreement yesterday - obviously is pulling wool over the eyes of Congress.

If there wasn't the votes on Friday night to pass this piece of legislation, than why does anyone think there will be the votes today to pass it, especially after some of the things that were said about it Friday?


Here we go.
 
James48843 said:
ladies and gentlemen- it's a "hoodwink".

I just went through both bills. The Senate one is in fact the VERY SAME bill they rejected on Friday.

The bill Silverbird posted at the House bill, is in fact the same bill that only got 218 votes on Friday, and that the Senate rejected in a Cloture vote Friday night.

Anyone who says that there is suddenly agreement yesterday - obviously is pulling wool over the eyes of Congress.

If there wasn't the votes on Friday night to pass this piece of legislation, than why does anyone think there will be the votes today to pass it, especially after some of the things that were said about it Friday?


Here we go.
Click to expand...

WOW ! Not Surprising, but WOW ! :mad:
 
Looks like the president will raise the debt ceiling on his own and give congress another two years to try and hash it out. Sure is coming down to that option.
 
..And the House gets to vote first. Is this so the Senate gets to throw in the clean debt ceiling bill Hail Mary pass if the House doesn't deliver?

Ok, Treasury - Let's see that "No Debt Celing" plan. If it's what I think it is, there's nothing like a dose of reality. From what I can tell, the President can't take on new debt even with the 14th amendement - and that includes paying Congress for future sessions. You do have to pay for work before we hit the ceiling - which would mean we get paid in two weeks but have to go home now - you can't incur more debt, you know. And the "essential" workers - the question is can you actually force them to work if you are not allowed to pay them. Otherwise we are talking about forcing them to work with no way to pay - which is illeagal. Not the same situation as a usual furlough you know. Of course, trips to Yellowstone Smithsonian Washington Monument = out of luck, right in the cusp of tourist season.

Or am I just too cynical here?
 
James48843 said:
News flash- they've put off the vote in the House until later tonight at an undisclosed time.

That can only mean one thing- they don't have enough votes to pass it right now, or they would already be voting on it.

Ugly. Real Ugly.
Click to expand...

Given the undisputed circumstances the USA faces - and the latest update on www.cnnmoney.com - it's pretty much impossible to avoid raising the ceiling debt.

Although your suggestion seems fairly likely it could be this is meant to set the stage to give the reigning politicians a more stand out presentation - kind of heroic glitter so to speak and make it look like they spent long hours in the night before they came to an agreement. But the celing debt will be raised and there is absolutely no way that can be avoided.

For the USA - Debt 'relief' means more Debt - and this long standing pattern has deepened since at least the early 80s. At this point the politicians can only play the Game of debating the issue for so long - but at least the Game makes us think they see the enormous problems associated with it. But the bottom line is much deeper and I don't care what party they represent - once withdrawl symptoms set in - they will most certainly make sure we get our next 'Fix'. I think they have drawn enough attention to the issue - that they can now look like 'heroes' and it will past tonight and for at least the next 2 years the celing debt will not be a problem.

The Economy is still struggling to survive - but all we can do is wait it out. Given our options 'Staying IN' has the highest probability of long term rewards. Business is going to do whatever it can to get strong - stay strong - and get stronger.

EDIT: Sorry about missing all the other posts -- have been working on this one in between activities
 
Sounds like Gabby Giffords was on hand to vote. That was a pleasant surprise.
 
Happy Trails said:
The debt ceiling bill has passed the house.
Click to expand...


You are not going to believe this- ..... but:

I just checked the House record, and the only vote held tonight was NOT the debt ceiling bill.

Take a look at this- the official record of what took place:

9:25 P.M. - On motion to adjourn Agreed to by voice vote. The House adjourned pursuant to a previous special order. The next meeting is scheduled for 10:00 a.m. on August 2, 2011.
Mr. King (IA) moved that the House do now adjourn.

7:36 P.M. - SPECIAL ORDER SPEECHES - The House has concluded all anticipated legislative business and has proceeded to Special Order speeches, without prejudice to the possible return to legislative business.
7:34 P.M. - Mr. Poe (TX) asked unanimous consent That when the House adjourns on Monday, August 1, 2011, it adjourn to meet at 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, August 2, 2011. Agreed to without objection.
7:33 P.M. - Congressional-Executive Commission on the People's Republic of China - Pursuant to 22 U.S.C. 6913, and the order of the House of January 5, 2011, the Speaker appointed Mr. Smith, New Jersey, Chairman .
H.R. 2480: to amend title 5, United States Code, to authorize appropriations for the Administrative Conference of the United States for fiscal years 2012, 2013, and 2014, and for other purposes
7:32 P.M. - On motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill, as amended Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 382 - 23 (Roll no. 691). Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection.

7:16 P.M. - Considered as unfinished business.
H. Con. Res. 70: correcting the enrollment of S. 365
7:15 P.M. - Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection. On agreeing to the resolution Agreed to by voice vote.
Considered as privileged matter.

S. 365: to make a technical amendment to the Education Sciences Reform Act of 2002
7:08 P.M. - Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection. On passage Passed by recorded vote: 269 - 161 (Roll no. 690).

6:49 P.M. - Call of the House Quorum responded: 419 present (Roll no. 689).
S. 365: to make a technical amendment to the Education Sciences Reform Act of 2002
6:26 P.M. - The previous question was ordered pursuant to the rule.
5:01 P.M. - DEBATE - The House proceeded with one hour of debate on S. 365.
5:00 P.M. - Rule provides for consideration of S. 365 with 1 hour of general debate. Previous question shall be considered as ordered without intervening motions except motion to recommit with or without instructions. Measure will be considered read. Bill is closed to amendments. The amendment in the nature of a substitute printed in the report of the Committee on Rules accompanying this resolution shall be considered as adopted. All points of order against provisions in the bill, as amended, are waived. Considered under the provisions of rule H. Res. 384.
Click to expand...



Now, when you look at the record, that was roll call vote number 690 that scored a 269-161 vote for passage.

But what actually WAS vote 690 on?

It turns out roll call 690 was on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BILL. It was on a technical amendment to the Educational Sciences bill.


Folks- I may be a conspiracy theorist, but I just think the entire nation was subject to a flim-flam maneuver.


Somebody please prove me wrong. Please. Show me what bill and what vote number in the record is this so-called debt ceiling bill they supposedly passed.

PLEASE show me.


Bueller?

source: http://thomas.loc.gov
 
Asian markets down strongly on the U.S. debt vote.

Japan now down
down_r.gif
118.43 (-1.19%)
 
James48843 said:
Asian markets down strongly on the U.S. debt vote.

Japan now down
down_r.gif
118.43 (-1.19%)
Click to expand...

Which is kind of funny. Yesterday without a vote but the pretense of passage Asia and Europe where up big. So it passes the House (barely) and now the market is down. Does the Senate have a choice?
 
James48843 said:
Folks- I may be a conspiracy theorist, but I just think the entire nation was subject to a flim-flam maneuver.


Somebody please prove me wrong. Please. Show me what bill and what vote number in the record is this so-called debt ceiling bill they supposedly passed.

PLEASE show me.
Click to expand...

I think it's increasingly obvious it was indeed a 'Game' all along - a flin-flan manueuver is the same expression.

There is nothing I would more 'wish for' than to prove you wrong. All the thousands of programs in place were probably largely essential when established for that particular time and the politicians of 'old' more than likely had the best of intentions and everything was largely for the best interests of the whole.

But everything has become corrupted and every program has balloned way beyond what it was meant to be. More and more loop holes have been found with every single one and the rewards these programs offer have in turn largely influenced people to live their lives in such a way that they can take advantage of these programs. In 1976 I joined the Army - as it appeared the GI Bill (that pays for college) would end that year - so to me that was huge.

Anyway - these programs are more and more the livlihood by which many exist and so many are tied to these programs that 'Politicians' are powerless to deal with them. The uproar by the masses would be political suicide. So the only thing they have left to do is 1. Campaign for money and 2. Do all things possible to make the opposing party take the blame for all the wrong.

Well if I were to show you anything - or to prove anything - it would be how Debt itself is going to ruin the USA and how Politics over the years is way more based on hiding the pain and putting on a 'good face'. Their ultimate JOB is to provide the population with comfort and to keep the population from 'pain' - which translates to keeping the present population 'happy' and letting the inevitable fall on a future generation. DEBT from the USA's perspective is best handled by more Debt because that is the most pain free solution for todays' population and that keeps all the benefits flowing.

Japan and the other countries around the world are not nearly as concerned about 'raising the Ceiling Debt' as they are the Debt itself and the USA taking the rest of the world down with them. The fear - others have towards the USA is nothing like it use to be - they can see what's happening.

Raising the ceiling debt does not change the underlying fundamentals by which the Markets are based - it simply keeps a certain population employed and keeps the programs supplying the perks people have come to depend on.
 
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