Home Repairs

[PessOptimist]

This has been discussed on the patio and in other threads, I am going to try to make it a new thread under the lounge called home repairs.
Lots of home repair stuff has been discussed, this one is about light bulbs.

It is getting harder to find incandescent bulbs. Sometimes you can if you look for “appliance bulbs”.

Much has been said about the CFL savior of the future landfill polluters. What’s a little mercury?

My experience has been that they last about the same amount of time as the evil incandescent and in some applications last only a few months.

OK. I am as much in to saving the world as anyone. Now what?

LED bulbs. Prices are coming down some and the few I have around here seem to be lasting longer than the CFLs.

I have several dimmable fixtures in the house. Most are in ceiling fans. Paying extra for “dimmable” CFL bulbs has been less than satisfactory. I find the bulbs do not shut off completely when turned off but continue to glow when shut off with the remote control. I also find they are lasting about two to three months. OK so much for that green initiative.

“dimmable” LED bulbs are available for about 800% of the price of an incandescent. They are supposed to last the rest of my life. The problem is they are significantly heavier that the incandescent bulbs they replace and many fixtures are not designed to hold the weight. They droop as the supports bend. Fixtures are made cheap even in expensive lights/fans.

What’s a person trying to support the green initiative to do?

PO

 

[burrocrat]

What’s a person trying to support the green initiative to do?

make candles from the tallow of recycled rendered road kill. or go to sleep when it gets dark. like in the old days when there was no global warming.

 

[PessOptimist]

make candles from the tallow of recycled rendered road kill. or go to sleep when it gets dark. like in the old days when there was no global warming.

Good suggestions.

The second one is practiced on occasion but if lights, ceiling fans, TVs, computer monitors are turned off before retiring they magically get turned back on and I hear mumblings about “the humanity” or some such in the background. No net greeninessgain from that, just a nice long sleep.

I have not thought about the tallow thing since some long ago school trip to some 17[SUP]th[/SUP] century village where such candles were for sale and denizens were pouring such candles from what suspiciously smelled like paraffin and appeared to be colored yellowish. Apparently the whole rendering process was very clean and appealing.

Some rendering processes appeared not to be so appealing based on my dealings with the “renderer’s truck” at local butcher shops and cleaning the deep fryer back when beef fat was what they used.

Rendered road kill sounds very green and brings to mind several scents for the nature types. Racoons, foxes, coyotes, muskrats, ring tailed cats and maybe a specialty line of skunk tallow. First obstacle will be how to render the tallow. Inside the house will use electricity and the side burner of the grill will use propane. I suppose some form of solar heat could be used but sounds slow. Plus for road kill other than domestic dog or cat I will have to use gasoline to find.

Alas, this solution seems out of reach to me unless I move to a less populated area.

Thanks burro.

PO

 

[burrocrat]

well, nobody said being green was easy. for those who find it difficult or inconvenient to offset their urban carbon footprint, you can always send al gore some money and purchase greenness credits from folks who have been more successful or diligent at it. minus brokerage fees of course, even brokers need to eat too. maybe they have a sally struthers monthly club plan or something, "for less than a cup of coffee a day... save the world".

 

[PessOptimist]

Back to reality. Dimmable LED bulbs rated for fully enclosed fixtures are claimed to be available from some manufacturers. If you chase down the Phillips claim however, you find the specs for the bulb do not recommend fully enclosed fixtures. I could pick on many but Phillips seems to profit most from this green initiative of NO MORE INCANDESCENT BULBS. JMHO.

Of course, I could rip down these old ceiling fans and buy new ones which would be real green. The new ones would probably be made in China while these 20 year olds were probably made in some other place not the USA. I just throw the old ones in a landfill. That might make the light bulb greenies happy but what about the landfill greenies?

One thing about greenies, you can never please them all. The only common thread is that some green company makes some green money and contributes a small amount to some green cause.

So back to the search for light. Searching for safe, economical, green light sources usable in older fixtures brings me to earthled.com. This has got to be the right place. They recommend several brands that I have never heard of so I will consider those brands. Many of them have year’s long warranties if you turn them on for only three hours per day and don’t install them in an enclosed fixture. What? Hmmm. Is the green initiative not without unstated consequences?

OK, I’ll bite and order a couple. Maybe. Greencreative? TCP? CREE? Maybe I should venture out tomorrow and look locally. Ordering is problematic due to restrictions on credit card use and vendors. Just like at work.

Happy weekend all.

PO

 

[PessOptimist]

Stopped by a local huge box depot store on the way home from work. Surprise, they have 43W incandescent bulbs advertised on the box as 60W equivalent. $5 for four. One of those big steel ladder/stairway things was parked smack up against the incandescent section. Not suggesting anything, just saying. I moved it, no problem, there are never any employees around these type of stores anyway.

While there I looked at the LED bulbs. Much lighter than in the past. Bought two Cree brand for $5 each. Not going to try to search who Cree is. I doubt it has anything to do with native americans.

The LED bulbs claim a life of 22.5 years if used three hours per day. The fine print says three years if used six hours per day. A factor of roughly 1/7[SUP]th[/SUP] for doubled usage so here with an estimated 12 hours per day (whenever the shadows start getting long until I turn them off before going to work) that ought to be about 1.5 years. We will see. I documented the in service date.

The incandescent bulbs are estimated to last .9 years if used three hours per day. No fine print found.

So it may be getting easier to be green. The LED is usable and only 400% more costly. Time will tell if it lasts 400% longer in use. LEDs contain no mercury but have lead, nickel, copper and other “really, really bad stuff”. Incandescent are just “really bad”. I love reading greenie “scientific” papers.

The “dimmable” LEDs do not really dim as expected by what I read. No prob, main user believes in full power use at all times. They do not emit any light when turned off via the remote control as the CFLs do. Doesn’t mean they are not drawing current. No, I don’t have a clamp on amp meter.

I hope these ramblings help someone out. I remember several of us began replacing our incandescent bulbs with CFLs several years ago as the old bad ones burned out. Mixed results were reported. Long life was a lie in many cases. Especially with the early CFL bulbs. I have a pair of lights on the patio where I replaced the bulbs with one LED and one CFL. They both produce more heat than the incandescents they replaced. Subjective observation but they are HOT. 2.8 years and they still work. No records kept of time turned on but occasionally I do have to shut them off when leaving for work.

No noticeable impact on the electric bill but here the AC uses so much it is hard to tell.

PO

 

[Scout333]

Check out the Oct. 2015 Consumer Report article re lighting. Also, I use the CFL bulbs for my outside lights and run them 24/7. Seem to last longer if you don't turn them on and off frequently. JMHO no scientific studies here. :smile:

 

[PLANO]

Check out the Oct. 2015 Consumer Report article re lighting. Also, I use the CFL bulbs for my outside lights and run them 24/7. Seem to last longer if you don't turn them on and off frequently. JMHO no scientific studies here. :smile:

I read that somewhere too, that the CFLs life is shortened if the bulbs are turned off/on frequently....you know...like a light

I've been changing my whole house over to LEDs as the current bulbs go out. I have found that if you get the 'soft white' version as opposed to the 'day light' version its a pretty decent match to the old incandescent. They run much cooler too and I have been able to find a bulb style that fits in every kind of light fixture we have so far. You need the right kind of dimmer switch to dim them without a noisy hum, but once you have that they seem to dim very well. For my can lights in the bathrooms I installed an LED retrofit fixture that screws into the light socket and then snaps in flush with the ceiling. It provides you with a sealed fixture that should work for 20 years and keeps moisture from the bathroom out (which was a problem for me using the old incandescent bulbs).

We have pretty high ceilings in our house (and seemingly millions of light fixtures....probably not but it seems like it haha) so the thought of not having to drag out my heavy ladder to change stupid light bulbs every few weeks makes me very happy. I gladly paid the premium price for an LED bulb that should last years and years.

 

[burrocrat]

well it is the weekend and i don't have much to do, idle hands make for the devil's work you know? i do have a $100 gift card for the regional equivalent of home depot so maybe i will go up there and get some supplies for a home improvement project or something, maybe start to remodel my bedroom.

View attachment 35181

 

[Boghie]

PO,

I think you will be very happy with the LEDs. CREE is a good brand so there should be no problems.

However, if they only last 1.5 years my guess is that you have a problem with either the fixtures or your house power. I did not see any 'fine print' regarding total lifetime at the CREE site for the bulb I looked at. I looked at Phillips as well. Maybe you are buying obsolete bulbs. There have been huge advances in LED lighting - but mostly in color and form (I believe).

Anyway, I think a family member will post the depressing message to the board before you buy a replacement. And, I think your air conditioning system will express a little electronic and 'freon' smile on the change. The power usage is about 15% of incandescent so you will keep a bit more in your bank account. I don't know where you live, but in Kalefornea the use of LEDs and CFLs keeps me out of Tier 3 pricing which costs $0.40 per KW/h. That adds up VERY quickly. (Hey Libs, that $0.40 per KW/hour starts at 450KWh per month - work that out for your power usage eh...). They put out so little heat you can grab the bulb after it has been on for some time.

While I haven't tried them, I would probably use bulbs from: candelabra bulbs for my fan fixtures. They seem lighter and among the best reviewed.

 

[Boghie]

PO,

You are right and wrong about the heat. The bulb stays cool while the heat sink warms up. Nice advertising there, eh... Anyway I took my 75W equivalent (12W) out while it was on and didn't have any problem - I even grabbed the heat sink. Heat in a light fixture is wasted energy... Again, if you are actually experiencing more heat using an LED than an incandescent than I would look at the fixture itself. Something is very wrong...

As far as enclosed fixtures I now understand that the bulbs themselves will experience a shorter lifespan because of heat - hence the heat sink. So, the lifetime may be impacted in enclosed fixtures. One hint on enclosed fixtures is to use bulbs rated for enclosed fixtures and do not mix. An incandescent or CFL bulb will produce heat that the LED will not like.

Here are the sites I found:
Five things to consider before buying LED bulbs - CNET
LED FAQs | LED Lighting | Bulbs.com
House Watch | Clearing up some of the confusion on LED lights - The Washington Post
Cree raises its game, lowers prices with 4Flow bulb - The Tech Report

 

[PessOptimist]

Thanks for the replies.

I have been rambling a bit about this and maybe talking different kinds of fruit. Or different ages of fruit.

I started experimenting with alternative light bulbs 10 or more years ago when they were very expensive and to be honest about the CFLs, horrible. Especially the free ones given away by the power company (our tax dollars actually). Delayed turn on, dimness at first and sickly light color.

The LEDs were very expensive, hot and heavy.

Things have changed.

I am going to snip up the replies and comment.

PO,
You are right and wrong about the heat. The bulb stays cool while the heat sink warms up. Nice advertising there, eh... Anyway I took my 75W equivalent (12W) out while it was on and didn't have any problem - I even grabbed the heat sink. Heat in a light fixture is wasted energy... Again, if you are actually experiencing more heat using an LED than an incandescent than I would look at the fixture itself. Something is very wrong...OK, maybe I was exaggerating a little about the CFL but it is hot to the touch when on. Not so hot I can't unscrew it to look at the date. The LED heat sink does get very hot. The actual bulb is not too hot to hold.

Getting off on a tangent again. The LED bulb is an Ecosource A19 manufactured around July 2011. Over ½ million of these have been recalled as a heat hazard. Not my manufacture date however. I called the number given by CPSC and got a recording. It ain’t easy trying to be green. I suppose I should find the one in the ceiling can and get it replaced. Done, it has a date on it 12/12/11. No signs of overheating but these cans get real hot with the incandescent and are supposedly built accordingly. Replaced it with a new CFL. Will see if anyone notices.

As far as enclosed fixtures I now understand that the bulbs themselves will experience a shorter lifespan because of heat - hence the heat sink. So, the lifetime may be impacted in enclosed fixtures. One hint on enclosed fixtures is to use bulbs rated for enclosed fixtures and do not mix. An incandescent or CFL bulb will produce heat that the LED will not like. Yup learned the same. OK so some of the short life may have been my fault. I am going to whine about the “direct replacement for incandescent bulb” hype. FWIW dimmable enclosed fixtures do have vent holes over the bulbs.

PO,
I think you will be very happy with the LEDs. CREE is a good brand so there should be no problems. Time will tell. The do not dim as dim as incandescent bulbs but one of the many links you provided stated that.
However, if they only last 1.5 years my guess is that you have a problem with either the fixtures or your house power. I did not see any 'fine print' regarding total lifetime at the CREE site for the bulb I looked at. I looked at Phillips as well. Maybe you are buying obsolete bulbs. There have been huge advances in LED lighting - but mostly in color and form (I believe). “Lighting Facts” on the packaging states estimated life based on 3hrs/day=22.8 years. Warrantee states if the bulb “does not operate for 3 years (based on 6 hours per day/7 days per week of normal consumer use) from date of purchase if used as directed return the bulb etc. etc. and they might replace it.

Anyway, I think a family member will post the depressing message to the board before you buy a replacement. I think that if any of the family members contact any TSP site it will be TSP.gov. Eventually someone may search out other sites and find the password and username to close things out. Nothing against family members but after the decedent is disposed of the decedees move on to practical things so they can get back to their lives.

And, I think your air conditioning system will express a little electronic and 'freon' smile on the change. The power usage is about 15% of incandescent so you will keep a bit more in your bank account. I don't know where you live, but in Kalefornea the use of LEDs and CFLs keeps me out of Tier 3 pricing which costs $0.40 per KW/h. That adds up VERY quickly. (Hey Libs, that $0.40 per KW/hour starts at 450KWh per month - work that out for your power usage eh...). They put out so little heat you can grab the bulb after it has been on for some time. My power usage for lighting is about 10% of the total, if I can believe the surveys done. Reducing the usage for lighting will have no effect whatsoever on the AC or HVAC system. It uses what it uses and is a couple year old efficient unit. 15% of 10% is 1.5% and every little bit helps. I live in AZ, incidentally one of the largest producers of power for the great state of CA. Your per kwh price is what you pay for importing all the electricity.

While I haven't tried them, I would probably use bulbs from: candelabra bulbs for my fan fixtures. They seem lighter and among the best reviewed. Checked them out and they are what they say. Candelabra base bulbs.

I read that somewhere too, that the CFLs life is shortened if the bulbs are turned off/on frequently....you know...like a light What I read too…leaving lights on is green? I've been changing my whole house over to LEDs as the current bulbs go out. I have found that if you get the 'soft white' version as opposed to the 'day light' version its a pretty decent match to the old incandescent. They run much cooler too and I have been able to find a bulb style that fits in every kind of light fixture we have so far. You need the right kind of dimmer switch to dim them without a noisy hum, but once you have that they seem to dim very well. Not my experience, but maybe I am not spending enough. They do dim but not nearly as much as the incandescent. No hum just don't dim very much as stated on web sites. For my can lights in the bathrooms I installed an LED retrofit fixture that screws into the light socket and then snaps in flush with the ceiling. It provides you with a sealed fixture that should work for 20 years and keeps moisture from the bathroom out (which was a problem for me using the old incandescent bulbs). And the old fixture/bulb ends up in a landfill.:laugh:

We have pretty high ceilings in our house (and seemingly millions of light fixtures....probably not but it seems like it haha) so the thought of not having to drag out my heavy ladder to change stupid light bulbs every few weeks makes me very happy. I gladly paid the premium price for an LED bulb that should last years and years.

I am not really trying to be difficult about this, just passing on how early experiments were less than pleasing. I am still replacing burned out bulbs with LEDs. I too hope to never use the ladder again.

Check out the Oct. 2015 Consumer Report article re lighting. Also, I use the CFL bulbs for my outside lights and run them 24/7. Seem to last longer if you don't turn them on and off frequently. JMHO no scientific studies here.

Leaving the lights on 24/7 is green how? Oh yeah, they use no electricity and last forever. No they don’t but just trying to point out you can’t please everyone.

Happy green bulb replacing everyone!

PO

 

[FogSailing]

I think it's great what you can do with $100 these days...

FS

 

[Boghie]

PO,

I should go back to school and take a reading lesson or two...

Anyway, I just tested my LED dimmer setup. You are right, it did not appear to dim as far as what my very dim memory of dimming incandescents did. It is a very dim memory because I tried the dimmable CFLs - which was an absolute flicking and humming misery. I ended up never dimming those dumb bulbs. In fact, I consider myself a dim bulb for buying them. I think I am getting off topic.:cheesy:

All my LEDs are a year or less old so maybe they learned something in the three years since your lot was made. Other then not dimming to a sensual level with a very special someone I have had no problems. The light is good, the dimming is smooth, and my KillOWatt meter reads a real savings. By the way, I don't give a rats behind about green. I like the color but I can't stand the sanctimonious turds that appropriated it. They are about as green as their personal jets...:embarrest:

As far as Kalefornea, what can I say. Our bureaucrats force oddball rate structures to try to get everyone to save energy. They refuse to allow power generation to be developed in our bucolic state so we pull it from Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington - but also from smoking behemoths in Mexico. Then we tax it. So our feeble minded politicians pretend our power don't stink. And the green is my money flowing to them. Why am I still here. I view it like an investment - you know 'Blood in the Streets'. The next economic downturn will drive this state to its knees...

 

[PessOptimist]

PO,

I should go back to school and take a reading lesson or two...

Anyway, I just tested my LED dimmer setup. You are right, it did not appear to dim as far as what my very dim memory of dimming incandescents did. It is a very dim memory because I tried the dimmable CFLs - which was an absolute flicking and humming misery. I ended up never dimming those dumb bulbs. In fact, I consider myself a dim bulb for buying them. I think I am getting off topic.

All my LEDs are a year or less old so maybe they learned something in the three years since your lot was made. Other then not dimming to a sensual level with a very special someone I have had no problems. The light is good, the dimming is smooth, and my KillOWatt meter reads a real savings. By the way, I don't give a rats behind about green. I like the color but I can't stand the sanctimonious turds that appropriated it. They are about as green as their personal jets...

As far as Kalefornea, what can I say. Our bureaucrats force oddball rate structures to try to get everyone to save energy. They refuse to allow power generation to be developed in our bucolic state so we pull it from Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington - but also from smoking behemoths in Mexico. Then we tax it. So our feeble minded politicians pretend our power don't stink. And the green is my money flowing to them. Why am I still here. I view it like an investment - you know 'Blood in the Streets'. The next economic downturn will drive this state to its knees...

Oh gosh. No, no worries about the claims and warrantee. Who actually reads that stuff? The first is hype and the second reality. Besides I tried that guarantee thing years ago on CFLs and got a polite e-mail stating I had misused the bulbs.

No self-recrimination about trying something new. We do it if we care about the bill and at some level the usage. Some experiments were better than others.

I do believe that LEDs have gotten much better in the last few years. Even the hot ones from 2012 are still working. I retrieved the one from the ceiling can and will repurpose it. The patio one hasn’t burned anything down yet so will keep using it and it may well outlast me.

I love your statement about “the sanctimonious turds that appropriated it”. Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

The CA stuff…I probably shouldn’t have said that outside the political threads. Just threw it in because I know some CA residents who believe they are completely self-sufficient in all things and provide the whole world with union grown lettuce.

Apparently I just like to complain about things. Both of us should keep on keeping on the way we are. We do what we do. I try to live in a house at the side of the road and not pi*s anyone off. Sometimes I break that rule.

PO

 

[PessOptimist]

Todays topic shall be screws. Very useful things, screws. A little customer cervix thrown in.

Trouble report was loose arm pad on a chair. Diagnosis=front screw missing, rear screw loose. As usual I looked around on the floor for a screw. Why do I do that? If that screw ever appears it will be long after I procure another screw.

I tightened the loose one. I then removed one from the other arm. User told me that was not where the problem was. I told user I needed to see what size the screw was. User asked what if they are not the same size. Good question so I demonstrated that the screw fit the vacant hole. Then I removed it and was asked why since the arm was now fixed…

So what size is this thing? At one time I could eyeball them. This was a 10-32. The most common past screw size for pre-drilled and threaded 19” equipment racks. I must have dealt with thousands of them in the last 40 years. Still, I was not sure. So I took it to the big store that is blue. Because it is closer than the one that is orange.

At the big store I found where they had moved the screw aisle and it is arranged by…no known system. After looking around I found they had a panel between racks with threaded rods and tubes sticking out, each one for a different size/thread bolt/nut. Very cool since asking an employee will only alarm them as they are not sure what hardware is? So determine what you need and then look at each rack, top to bottom until you find it. It may be in a bin, may be hanging in a bag. My requirement was found in a bag of six with nuts. Just buy em, a real hardware store is hard to find. I will put them in the home screw department where I will not be able to find them later.

One caution applicable to 10-32 machine screws. They are very close in size to MM5 and will fit in to the tube and will work in a pinch but will not have the strength needed for most applications.

And that’s all I got to say about screws for now. Chair arm is fixed now and need expressed to replace chair not an issue at present.

PO

 

[PessOptimist]

Today’s subject is drilling holes in drywall. Always mark locations carefully. Measure twice. This is the important part, drill a small pilot hole and gently insert a probe at least as long as the wall is deep to see if there are any pipes, wires or other obstructions. Then drill the required size hole. Plan the job and each step and do not take shortcuts.

I am at the hospital visiting right now so project is HIA. I need to think about it some now.

During the final stages of drilling the first hole I was interrupted a couple of times by phone calls and texts, the final call from the visitee wondering about where I was with the clean laundry. I had everything marked at that time and was determined to drill one hole before I left and did so. I did not insert the probe first. Now I have a very neat looking ¾” hole in the wall right on the edge of a 3” ABS vent stack. No harm to the stack just no room for the anchor as there is about ¼” between the near wall and the pipe. Now what? Unnecessary hole, compromised integrity of the dry wall for installing additional anchors… Always probe first, a 1/8” hole is much easier to patch than a ¾” hole.

More later perhaps after a cold beverage.

PO

 

[PessOptimist]

I studied on this while doing chores, driving to/from rehab center and sitting at rehab center. Rehab center is 44 miles away BTW but you got to go with what’s best for the patient.

Since I had a nice ¾” hole already and ¼” plus between the drywall and the stack, I realized a toggle bolt would work. I happened to have some toggle bolts around that I could actually find. Not wanting to cut the bolt shorter I looked in my stuff and found a 1” bolt of the proper size and thread. A hardened hex head bolt but who cares. Tied some sturdy string around the toggle and inserted it through the hole. Always tie something too big to fit through the hole to the other end of the string. That way you won’t lose it when Murphy comes by.

I drilled another 3/4 “ hole at about 5 o’clock on the grab bar flange to clear the stack pipe. Inserted the wingit ADA approved anchor in the wall and screw through the flange. After a lot of finessing I got the bolt to screw in to the toggle and one side is mounted. The other side just screws in to a stud. FWIW your stud finder will lie to you about the edge of the stud.

I couldn’t find the wall patching stuff but more than likely it would be no good after several summers in a Phoenix area garage. Off to a hardware store tomorrow. I like using locally owned hardware stores when I can.

Two more grab rails to go but they will wait as the big box chain stores do not have the proper anchors for grab bars in spite of claims on the internet. The employees of these stores are little help. Show them what you got from the web site and they say “we never carry that, I’ll let my manager know”. Right. Bless those workers, no training and no knowledge of how to fix anything. Most I have ever dealt with are willing to learn about their products.

I ordered the proper anchors on Amazon after much research. The house will be ready when SO returns. Will I be?

PO

 

[nnuut]

It depends how much weight the anchors need to support. For sheet rock toggle bolts are the best but others can be used for lesser support. You could use others that expand and work but might be necessary to cut off the attaching screws also. What are you hanging a big screen TV?

 

[PessOptimist]

300 Lbs according to Americans with Disabilities Act publications. I am hanging bathroom grab bars for SOs pending return to home. Wingits are recommended but I bet toggle bolts will be fine. I screwed up the first hole by not following the probe all holes first rule. It's all good and I just need to fill a larger than necessary hole in the drywall not covered by the grab bar flange cover.
thanks for the input.
PO