Cried "Uncle!"

[BULLonPARADE]

Locked in my losses for the week today, couldn't stand the pain anymore. I then called my congressman's office to express my outrage with the current 2 IFT situation including discussing the FRIB's minutes concluding no money was saved. Oh well....didn't make me feel any better.

 

[tsptalk]

Ironic. The TSP doesn't like timers, and their timing couldn't have been any worse on implementing these limits.

 

[Spaf]

The TSP Board has some very bad beliefs. A long time ago a lot of folks came to america to be able to practice their beliefs and excape the persecution of their home land. In years before, members of TSP could believe in the buy-and-hold theory or the timing theory of trading funds within the market environment. However the board executives of TSP felt that the "timing" members, which were a small part, did not express a true devotion to their theory of buying and holding funds. Be it as it may, an executive prejudice against market timing, manifested itself in restrictions for members not to practice transfering funds more than twice a month. As the TSP syatem now stands it is a buy-and-hold system only. The two interfund transfers per month will allow for a re-allocation of funds but completely prevent any trading of funds in a price ranged market. In periods of recession the TSP restrictions (and a lack of financial education) will endanger all equity funds to large selloffs and losses. Most members are unaware of trading to protect capital and may become victims of panic and selling low. Members are also generally unaware of the diversification of index funds and (in down turns) want the bleeding to stop at any price. Too bad, because the price they pay is the loss of shares and a loss of savings.

 

[Gumby]

Ironic. The TSP doesn't like timers, and their timing couldn't have been any worse on implementing these limits.

Just think....the FRTIB says they saved everyone money by imposing the IFT limits. It has cost me thousands personally.
Total bunch of idiots in charge of FRTIB.

Reminds me of a saying that I heard when I was a kid.

"He that knows not that he knows not is a fool - avoid him".
Unfortunately the "he" is in charge of our retirement savings.

 

[McDuck]

Just think....the FRTIB says they saved everyone money by imposing the IFT limits. It has cost me thousands personally.
Total bunch of idiots in charge of FRTIB.

Probably cost most people tens of thousands.

 

[tsptalk]

Probably cost most people tens of thousands.

With stock fund and L-fund returns down 35%, 45%, even 53%, I'm sure there are quite a few accounts down over $100K. Real carnage.

 

[wv-girl]

The TSP Board has some very bad beliefs. A long time ago a lot of folks came to america to be able to practice their beliefs and excape the persecution of their home land. In years before, members of TSP could believe in the buy-and-hold theory or the timing theory of trading funds within the market environment. However the board executives of TSP felt that the "timing" members, which were a small part, did not express a true devotion to their theory of buying and holding funds. Be it as it may, an executive prejudice against market timing, manifested itself in restrictions for members not to practice transfering funds more than twice a month. As the TSP syatem now stands it is a buy-and-hold system only. The two interfund transfers per month will allow for a re-allocation of funds but completely prevent any trading of funds in a price ranged market. In periods of recession the TSP restrictions (and a lack of financial education) will endanger all equity funds to large selloffs and losses. Most members are unaware of trading to protect capital and may become victims of panic and selling low. Members are also generally unaware of the diversification of index funds and (in down turns) want the bleeding to stop at any price. Too bad, because the price they pay is the loss of shares and a loss of savings.

One question that I raised when all this crap(above was going on) was when exactly does the TSP buy our shares and from whom? Directly from the stock market? Or Barclays? They say they price our shares at the end of the trading day based on the exchanges but never really reveal when they were actually purchased. My point being--they could be making tons of money from the spread. Anyone know if this might be the case or not? Anyway, they are just plain crooks in my book. Can any of the board or directors be fired?

 

[BULLonPARADE]

After overcoming the emotional aspect of the finacial ass whoopin' I've endured this week and after digesting some of the economic data for today I cancelled the IFT and stayed in...thank goodness. It's easy to become distraught after loosing tens of thousands with no IFT's left but a cooler head prevailed.

I plagarized several of the members on this discussion board in the email I was asked to write by my congressman detailing the IFT travesty by the FRTIB. Hope you guy's don't mind but many here have the expertise, along with the required economic vocabulary in this area that far exceeds my own.

 

[robo]

Probably cost most people tens of thousands.

Yep - it sure did!

 

[robo]

After overcoming the emotional aspect of the finacial ass whoopin' I've endured this week and after digesting some of the economic data for today I cancelled the IFT and stayed in...thank goodness. It's easy to become distraught after loosing tens of thousands with no IFT's left but a cooler head prevailed.

I plagarized several of the members on this discussion board in the email I was asked to write by my congressman detailing the IFT travesty by the FRTIB. Hope you guy's don't mind but many here have the expertise, along with the required economic vocabulary in this area that far exceeds my own.

Thanks for your efforts and I still like the idea of TSP adding a single trading fund with the cost built into the fund. Maybe a total Stock Market fund...

Some comments I posted earlier on the subject for what its worth. I'm not a great writer or I would be sending out comments to congress weekly.

Some comments on - Market Timing - TSP police -The crooks...


Something I wanted to comment on and didn't... Sy's comments I think are right on and I'm always calling these guys crooks. I use to get some big paydays in TSP following periods he is talking about in his comments. However, the TSP police, and even many folks in TSP think we should not Market-Time, and should be buy and hope.


It would be very simple for the TSP police to add one index fund for us Market Timers to move in and out of and the price would be built in. Shiit, they could even make some extra money for the cry baby buy and hope that complain about how much money frequent trading cost them. This would be a separate index fund and you can bet your asss it would be very simple for Vanguard or any other major brokerage house to set up with TSP.

How then could the buy and hope complain when the general fund will be paid with extra money from our frequent trading. It's simple - you get your two moves a month in the regular index funds TSP offers and if you want additional moves you move in an out of that special index fund at a cost every time. We have the right time in history to push this with the market down so much.

Yeah, everybody wins - no cost to buy and hope - The TSP police can actually make some money off it. Unlimited moves and you don't have to use the index if don't want to.


It seems to me it could be done, but they just don't want to.


We should also have another push to get the deadline of are freaking 2 moves changed to 1 hour before the market closes not 4 hours.

It would be nice for someone to start this and you can count on me for a donation for the work. I didn't get involved in the last project because I knew it was a losing battle. However, the time change is very doable and the extra index is worth a try.

Anyway, something to think about....

Current talk about 401k money not being tax deductible next year on the hill. Yep, they are broke and need to get money from the folks that have it. Us! I guess my taxes are going up a shiit load since I put in jointly 41k last year and I will only put in the matching if they pass a bill like that.

I'm not a very good writer - so how about some thoughts on another push for some simple changes in TSP. Since the Market lost around 10 Trillion lately we have the best chance for a push now. Remember - the key is the cry-babies can actually make some extra money from us Market-Timers. Charge us and then put the money to all the share-holders and the time thing should be easy....

Someone please step-up and get this thing going....

Take Care folks!

It's nice to have recommendations ready when you are going to complain. We lost the last battle, but this could be a new one with a seprate index fund and for sure the time change.


Remember -The key is that TSP can make money off this - none of the current funds will be used - no I Fund - just a simple index fund similar to the S&P 500. Yep, Vanguard or Rydex would love our business... Everybody wins...


Think about it! Maybe it is a waste of time.....

 

[KevinD]

I'm almost certain Barclays has an exclusive contract. The fund would have to be through them...

 

[amoeba]

Tracker showing everybody, their brother, their family, and their dog, are bailing out of equities today. Market not off that much, so if the sentiment on this website is correct, they are getting out while the getting's good.

 

[Birchtree]

The main damage that investors can do to their financial security at this point would come from selling into steep but impermanent declines. Funds unwinding positions amid the looming redemption requests and increased difficulty in borrowing money have been among the reasons cited for the stock market's swoon over the past two months. However, the redemption requests at year end are expected to be massive. Please Mr. Custer, I don't want to go.

 

[amoeba]

Perhaps, but I bailed out before the dot-com boom got crushed, when was that, 2000? I remember the closing price on the S&P - 1249, which was actually a bounce - after having fallen to 1050. I swore if it hit 1250, I would bail completely..........good enough for government workers. I've had some good years in F-fund, but never fully invested since.

As the tracker shows, I took my lumps in late July of 08, when I thought the market had bottomed and started a recovery. I bailed again - after being in for one day.

I'll be looking at it again once there's some visibility in earnings....cheers until then.....

Amoeba

 

[turbo23dog]

I'm wondering why I'm feeling the urge to wait a few more days before bailing to G, if at all. I moved out of risk funds several months ago and was able to hold my losses to about half of what I would have lost. I've nibbled my way back to 50% risk funds and have all my contributions going to C, S and I. So my thinking is to hold tight a bit longer based on the new sparks of optimism I'm feeling in the markets.

 

[amoeba]

I'm wondering why I'm feeling the urge to wait a few more days before bailing to G, if at all. I moved out of risk funds several months ago and was able to hold my losses to about half of what I would have lost. I've nibbled my way back to 50% risk funds and have all my contributions going to C, S and I. So my thinking is to hold tight a bit longer based on the new sparks of optimism I'm feeling in the markets.

I'm not even kidding here, but I don't have the slightest idea why anyone would have a sense of optimism, so can you clue us in here on why you feel that way? (if the asian futures are any indication, you may not be alone, but that may not last the night).

I don't sense a lick of optimism, and here's a couple reasons why:

-overleveraging: by everyone (the whole world), on all forms of credit;

-bad ideas from the treasury secretary; his solution is to "loosen up credit"; which means greater overleveraging (how about saving some money first?)

-more failed loans coming, twice as many - in 2009. If you think this is a problem, wait till next summer.

-deflation - of major assets (homes), oil, etc. Some of this is IMO good, as it reigns in credit spending. Hanky thinks it is a problem. That's the problem (his thinking).

-tighter credit (as it should be) - it is being talked up as "loosening", but I don't see it in the major spreads, especially the TED.

-no light at end of the tunnel - the market does look forward; but at what? There's nothing to see - no visibility in earnings. At least another down year of take-no-prisoners redemptions.

-unemployment, lots of it, and more coming

-delayed bottoming, caused by cascade of temporary government bailouts, raises hopes - which fade when the market has to fend for itself.

The bottom line is less spending, less earnings, so lower equity values.

 

[turbo23dog]

Uh, I meant a sense of optimism for the next 30 days... short term only. I'm just as pessimistic for Q1 2009 or all 2009 as you are.

 

[ATCJeff]

Uh, I meant a sense of optimism for the next 30 days... short term only. I'm just as pessimistic for Q1 2009 or all 2009 as you are.

First of the year I also see a major sell-off!

 

[budnipper1]

I'm wondering why I'm feeling the urge to wait a few more days before bailing to G, if at all. I moved out of risk funds several months ago and was able to hold my losses to about half of what I would have lost. I've nibbled my way back to 50% risk funds and have all my contributions going to C, S and I. So my thinking is to hold tight a bit longer based on the new sparks of optimism I'm feeling in the markets.

Maybe not jumping the gun was smart after all.
S&P 500 On Track For Fourth Straight Gain
Last Update: 26-Nov-08 14:55 ET
BRIEFING.COM] Stocks climb higher, with all ten sectors now in positive territory. Five sectors are up more than 3%.
The S&P 500 is now up 18.7% from its multi-year low reached last Friday. If the S&P 500 holds its gains, it will mark the first four-day winning streak since May.
http://news.briefing.com/GeneralContent/Investor/Active/ArticlePopup/ArticlePopup.aspx?ArticleId=SI20081126145754