Arizona Immigration law

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Mexico!:worried:

Mexico's immigration laws what is your reaction?
Recently Mexican President Calderon has been very outspoken, critical on U.S. Immigration law enforcement efforts and supports Amnesty for all illegal aliens from Mexico residing, working in this nation.

Contrary to popular belief, Mexico has very strict immigration laws which are enforced by every police agency in the country. The Bureau of Immigration can call upon any law enforcement officer to assist in their mission. Citizens from the United States traveling in Mexico without proper documents, work permits or non immigrant visas are subject to arrest as illegal aliens.

The laws regarding foreign national visitors, immigrants, non-citizens are as clear and concise in Mexico as are our own U.S. laws which are considered unenforceable by many politicians in Washington, D.C.

* Reglamento de la Ley General de Poblacion (General Law on Population) in Spanish dated Abril 14 de 2000 Capitulo Quinto --Migracion Seccion 1

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress."

Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents.

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy."

The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest."

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants.

A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity.

A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number.
Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be Imprisoned. Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned.

Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different is subject to fine and imprisonment.

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as Felons. Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished.

Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years.

Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison . Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population States…

"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080304125357AAAIvdh
 
I travel a lot and out of the country is where I go. Guess what, I take proper identification and I am asked for my "papers" all the time. I have been stopped on the streets in Mexico (Puerto Vallarta) and asked for my passport by a policeman. Annoying? yes. Legal? yes.:suspicious:

I do things "legally". It seems that this is accepted worldwide. In Europe, you actually surrender your passport in certain situations so that the country "knows" where you are and what you are doing".

Now, in America, it was determined that this could be done at just our ports of entry. Years have gone by and now that is no longer the case. So, to sum up US Code Title 8 Chapter 1 covers all the immigration knowledge you need.

Please, help Arizona, and all the other states enforce the laws that our Federal Government has forgotten!:suspicious:
 
Here is what I don't agree with:

I don't agree that any government authority can stop a U.S. citizen at will, demand identification papers, and then arrest or detain someone for not having the right papers on them.

That, my friends, is what the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment is all about.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

First of all, if there is no probable cause, then stopping is unconstitutional. A U.S. citizen has the right of free travel within and across state borders in this country. This ISN'T Mexico, or any other nation. This is the United States of America.

Yes, I believe in border security. If you really want border security in this country, then you better be prepared to pay for it, because it isn't going to happen with just 18,000 border patrol people.


We have boosted the number of Border Patrol agents over the last decade, but that still is a drop in the bucket compared to what it would take to actually seal the border. So either get serious about closing the border, or stop complaining. I hazard to guess that those who want closed borders are also the same folks who complain a great deal about government spending as well. If we can maintain 545,000 U.S. Army soldiers, then we can, and should, maintain an adequate U.S. Border Patrol. But we aren't even close to that -adequate- now.​


That said, those who are here already- you are not going to round them all up and deport them. It just isn't going to happen. Not the 12, or 15 million of them, depending on who is doing the counting. And many of those have ties which complicate the picture- illegal parents with U.S. born children. Are you going to boot mom and dad out, and let junior stay?​

This is why comprehensive immegration reform is needed now.

They almost had a deal in the last Congress, before some went bananas over the possibility that we are going to let those 12/15 million stay. There really isn't choice- they ARE going to stay, at least a great number of them. So we need to have a way to make the eligible to become American Citizens, and we need to figure out how to expend the resources necessary to close and secure the border, if that is what you wish to do.​

And will it just be the Mexican Border? Or also the Canadian Border? Because the Canadian Border is a lot longer, and a lot more difficult to secure than the Mexican border is.

Either you have to be prepared to spend the money it actually is going to take to secure the borders, or you're not. I'm talking big bucks when I say that. I don't know how many people it will take to do that. Obviously, with 18,000 agents now, there are still people getting in. So what will be the number of people it takes? 50,000? 500,000? Unless you are serious about hiring and maintaining a sufficient number to guard the border, then it really doesn't do any good to complain. If you ARE prepared to make that kind of deal, then you have to do it in a way that protects the rights of U.S. citizens-- no U.S. Citizen should be arrested or detained and made to prove his right to be here. THAT is what is in our Constitution. Arizona's law may very well imfringe upon that. The courts will decide.​

Close the border? Are you ready to make that investment?

You decide.​

GPO report on challenges to training and deploying the U.S. Border Patrol:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07997t.pdf​
 
The interesting thing is when you're traveling in another country and they stop you and ask for your papers you don't say, "Hey, wait a minute! What did you stop me for? You don't have probably cause!"

You just show them your documents and give a sigh of relief when they move on.

Could be the Uzi's they carry <shrug>
 
James48843 said:
Here is what I don't agree with:

I don't agree that any government authority can stop a U.S. citizen at will, demand identification papers, and then arrest or detain someone for not having the right papers on them.

That, my friends, is what the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment is all about.


Click to expand...

I agree with that, but everyone crossing the borders, applying for a job, sneaking over the fence, swimming across the Colorado River, everyone arrested or charged in violation of the law should have to IDENTIFY their self and prove their citizenship it's that simple, this is way too big of a problem to just do nothing! I'll Carry my birth certificate and my WIFE will carry her GREEN CARD like she is supposed to do NOW, by law!! :cool:
 
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I'm sure the big business that employ illegals in Arizona, just went all-Democrat on the mid-term election.

Commercial ag, factories, low-income based retail (WMT)... love the illegals and bank on 'em. Also considered the un-spoken growth sector in this economy.

I don't like 'em freeloading... just saying the big boyz don't agree with Arizona voters.
 
James48843 said:
That, my friends, is what the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment is all about.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Click to expand...
Verification of citizenship seems reasonable to me. If we did that, then maybe the ILLEGAL Aliens might think twice before coming here, not be a burden on our health care, not milk welfare when they have kids here, and ensure that the US Constitution is adhered to in totality.

Amazing you throw out the 4th ammendment and DEMAND that it be followed, but when it comes to the 10th Ammendment, feel free to walk over that one making states pay for something their citizens didn't vote for?

One or the other James. For or against the Constitution? You can't pick and choose the parts for your liking.
 
fedgolfer said:
I'm sure the big business that employ illegals in Arizona, just went all-Democrat on the mid-term election.

Commercial ag, factories, low-income based retail (WMT)... love the illegals and bank on 'em. Also considered the un-spoken growth sector in this economy.

I don't like 'em freeloading... just saying the big boyz don't agree with Arizona voters.
Click to expand...

Some the big bus. are gaming the Dem. Party.
 
72Zorad said:
The interesting thing is when you're traveling in another country and they stop you and ask for your papers you don't say, "Hey, wait a minute! What did you stop me for? You don't have probably cause!"

You just show them your documents and give a sigh of relief when they move on.

Could be the Uzi's they carry <shrug>
Click to expand...

Other countries don't have the U.S. Constitution.

When we are there- we have to obey their laws.

When we are here, we should be able to exercise the rights given us in ours.
 
nnuut said:
I agree with that, but everyone crossing the borders, applying for a job, sneaking over the fence, swimming across the Colorado River, everyone arrested or charged in violation of the law should have to IDENTIFY their self and prove their citizenship it's that simple, this is way to big of a problem to just do nothing! I'll Carry my birth certificate and my WIFE will carry her GREEN CARD like she is supposed to do NOW, by law!! :cool:
Click to expand...

I agree- if you catch them in the act of crossing. In that case, what you really want to do, is create a zone in which anyone trespassing is subject to asking that question. But that would entail the government buying enough land to make such a zone. (or eminment domain to aquire it- still- requiring large expendatures to make such a purchase thru eminent domaine ).

Once you are outside of that zone, however, rights to freedom from stopping and asking, without probable cause, should prevail.
 
fedgolfer said:
Commercial ag, factories, low-income based retail (WMT)... love the illegals and bank on 'em. Also considered the un-spoken growth sector in this economy. .
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Already illegal, and subject the employers to penalties if they do. That's what the law requiring verification by employers was all about. This is where you have real clout- IF that system is used properly- to verify employability.

Enforce that one, and you have a large part of the issue solved.
 
James48843 said:
Already illegal, and subject the employers to penalties if they do. That's what the law requiring verification by employers was all about. This is where you have real clout- IF that system is used properly- to verify employability.

Enforce that one, and you have a large part of the issue solved.
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Exactly, I agree. But will they truly enforce. AZ, maybe. The rest of the country... no chance in the foreseable future.
 
Frixxxx said:
Amazing you throw out the 4th ammendment and DEMAND that it be followed, but when it comes to the 10th Ammendment, feel free to walk over that one making states pay for something their citizens didn't vote for?

One or the other James. For or against the Constitution? You can't pick and choose the parts for your liking.
Click to expand...

I'm for all of it.

If you think the 10th is violated by something, by all means, use the existing legal process set up by the Constitution to validate or invalidate the Constitutionality of the law. That would be the U.S. Supreme Court.

Which has already ruled in cases about stopping a person and demanding I.D.- it's called the Terry Stop rule. (Terry Vs. Ohio), and also is cited in Beck Vs. Ohio. You can't just stop someone, and detain them, without probable cause that a crime has been committed. 4th Amendment is pretty clear on that one. The Arizona case above- where a U.S. Citizen was detained, and had to get their wife to bring a birth certificate to come down to the ICE Station, is flat out a violation of the citizen's rights. We need to do better than that, and the new Arizona law is in the opposite direction. The Arizona law is ripe for getting thrown out on 4th Amendment grounds.


We'll have to see what falls out of the new Arizona law- but something tells me it's going to face a lot of challenges.
 
Have know fear. Chicago Al is on way to AZ. He is going to start rioting in the streets, wants to earn his pink underwear at sherrif joes. lol
 
Viva La Migra said:
This is one of the things the new Arizona law is trying to stop. People die during smuggling events like this. Libs seem okay with that, as long as they get enough voters.:mad:
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I'm a Lib (big shock to you, huh) and I support La Migra's mission and activities. Coyotes are the villians here, not the immigrants or the Liberals.

People who have such a problem with Mexican immigrants need to remember that without them the orchards and fields don't get picked, the homes don't get built, the hotel rooms don't get cleaned, and so on. We've got to figure out a way to get these important things done by legal immigrants, stop the people who are hiring illegals now, stop the coyote slave trade.

This is a much more complex problem than just building a Berlin Wall across Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.
 
James48843 said:
I'm for all of it. If you think the 10th is violated by something, by all means, use the existing legal process set up by the Constitution to validate or invalidate the Constitutionality of the law. That would be the U.S. Supreme Court.
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Really James, your ignorance on that is astounding. You never really addressed it with the health care issue and now you will claim ignorance again. Apparently you are only interested in agenda building, rather than following the laws. Terry Stop law was for weapons searching after an alleged crime had been commited. The law allowed this "limited" search to ensure public safety and the safety of the officer.

How do you propose to rid the American society of people who are here illegally? How James? How can you do it legally? I'll look back in for your repsonse.
 
XL-entLady said:
People who have such a problem with Mexican immigrants need to remember that without them the orchards and fields don't get picked, the homes don't get built, the hotel rooms don't get cleaned, and so on..
Click to expand...


I have to disagree with you on that one Lady.

We don't need them to build our homes, pick our orchards and fields, or clean hotel rooms. There are many unemployed U.S. citizens who can and will do those jobs. It might not be done so cheap- but now we're talking what the VALUE of that work is to our society. Economics has a way of making the value paid to the wages earned. If only U.S. Citizens perform those tasks, it may cost a little bit more- but there will be no shortage of workers to do the job. Anyone will work- for the right price. Illegal aliens only depress labor market wages.

Enforce the law regarding who can work, and we'll solve two problems- illegal immigration, and unemployment of citizens.
 
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