Air Traffic Controllers

[weatherweenie]

Sounds like you have a personal problem. Your attitude is worse than that you claim controllers have. Look in the mirror.

Controllers have always had a can do attitude and an air of confidence. You have or you will get eaten alive.

We had the same influx of new hires when Reagan fired the striking controllers. That's not the problem. There have always been folks who can't make it. THAT is the reason we get paid. It is a tough job and not everyone is capable.

Get the chip off your shoulder!

My attitude is worse because I call a spade a spade?

I have a problem with arrogant people who can't do their jobs, and get paid a boat load of money to do their jobs miserably.

This isn't me talking, this is the prevailing attitude of the FAA employees at the center I work at.

If you want to stick your head in the sand, be my guest. The FAA, like many government agencies are the epitome of dysfunction. People like you who enable these practices to continue are at the root of the problem.

 

[Buster]

Everyone knows that money is only temporary. And the love of money is the root of all evil.

I suggest you quit your JOB right now and move in with a bunch monks..

 

[Buster]

You have hit the nail squarely on the head!!!

Schedule - If it were nights only, or ANYTHING with a little consistency, this
would have never come up. Shift work is inherently dangerous. Your body is made to sleep during the times you are asking it to be awake, and functional!

Manpower - With one man on the mid, in order to ADD a body to that shift. FAA must SUBTRACT one from the day or afternoon shift, when it is busy. Make sense now?


Oh.. Is 9 hours instead of 8 between shifts gonna help?? Please...

I agree also..

 

[clester]

My attitude is worse because I call a spade a spade?

I have a problem with arrogant people who can't do their jobs, and get paid a boat load of money to do their jobs miserably.

This isn't me talking, this is the prevailing attitude of the FAA employees at the center I work at.

If you want to stick your head in the sand, be my guest. The FAA, like many government agencies are the epitome of dysfunction. People like you who enable these practices to continue are at the root of the problem.

Like I said. You don't know what your talking about. Just because you work in the building doesn't mean you're an expert.

Let me guess. They get paid more than you and don't give you the respect you deserve?


Like I said, personal problem.

Until you do their job and plug in to a sector with people's lives on the line. Talk to the hand!

 

[nnuut]

I was an AC&W Aircraft Warning Specialist in th USAF and could have applied for a job as to work for the FAA as a controller. I was so sick of the tension at work I didn't even consider it, all the responsibility and none of the glory. My heart goes out for you guys, a very hard job keep up the good work. OH, they wouldn't let us sleep on the graveyard shift.

 

[weatherweenie]

Like I said. You don't know what your talking about. Just because you work in the building doesn't mean you're an expert.

Let me guess. They get paid more than you and don't give you the respect you deserve?


Like I said, personal problem.

Until you do their job and plug in to a sector with people's lives on the line. Talk to the hand!

You crack me up.

What I am saying is direct quotes from current FAA emoloyees. I just happen to agree with them and you try to paint me as a bad guy?

The common knowledge is, they are pushing people through that have NO business controlling traffic!

If you don't want to face reality, that's your problem.

 

[Buster]

I can back up WW's claim...it's true and also alarming with regards to the incompetence, coupled with the arrogance that is coming on...

Lately with all the Near misses and ground incursions, and crashing of tourist helicopters in the Hudson and now Sleeping on the job while two or more aircraft are trying to get clearance to land along with making The First Lady's and Dr. Biden's plane to go around because they're too close of proximity to a C17 air wake..Not to mention letting an Air France Jumbo almost decapitate a smaller commuter on the taxiway....You can bet there will be some major overhauling in policies and training in the ATC world..before something major of a air disaster happens..seems they've been lucky up til now...Remember..one little mistake when dealing with air Traffic can be catastrophic...And I do understand there is some stress that comes with the job..especially at O'Hara, JFK, Atlanta or LAX and these ATC's are compensated with top of the scale pay..but not all airports are like that, in fact most are not....I've stood in the cab of an ATC tower and watched the boys and girls have a ball tossing paper wads to deliberately plug up FDEP tubes and telling jokes to one another in one breath and then direct a plane to do something in another breath..multitasking at it's finest..but very little stress.

 

[Steel_Magnolia]

I suggest you quit your JOB right now and move in with a bunch monks..

Jeez, Buster, who whizzed in your Easter basket today? A bit of an over-reaction maybe? Yes?

 

[Buster]

Jeez, Buster, who whizzed in your Easter basket today? A bit of an over-reaction maybe? Yes?

NO!..I can't understand the ignorance of his statement while going to work everyday to bring home a pay check..Hypocrisy? Yes?

 

[James48843]

NO!..I can't understand the ignorance of his statement while going to work everyday to bring home a pay check..Hypocrisy? Yes?

See, there you go Buster, making assumptions again.

Who ever said that the reason I go to work every day is to bring home a paycheck?

I go to work everyday to make the Nation a better place to live, to make it safer for people to travel. To help the tired, the poor, the huddled masses, yearning to breath free. I lift my lamp every day.


The fact that there is a paycheck associated with it is fine. But that's not why I get up and go there every day.

It's the mental challenge of a good mystery that needs to be solved. It's helping American businessmen and women meet their regulatory obligations on their way to creating new and better ways to do things. It's rewarding to discover new ways of how to save people's lives. In sum- what I do helps keep people alive. That is the reward.

The paycheck is just part of the package. It's the intellectual stimulation that causes me to get up each morning and face the challenge at work.

You mean for you, all it is that drives you is the pay? If that's the case, then I REALLY feel sorry for you.

Here- try some exercises, Buster.

http://www.steppingstonesforvets.org/Values/Why_People_Work.pdf

 

[James48843]

Or better yet, enjoy this: you might learn something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuC-PGD8LQ0

 

[clester]

The common knowledge is, they are pushing people through that have NO business controlling traffic!

This statement i can agree with. But thats about it.

And who's fault is that? Not the controllers or the trainers, but the supes and managers.

Thats where you need to focus.

 

[clester]

I can back up WW's claim...it's true and also alarming with regards to the incompetence, coupled with the arrogance that is coming on...

Lately with all the Near misses and ground incursions, and crashing of tourist helicopters in the Hudson and now Sleeping on the job while two or more aircraft are trying to get clearance to land along with making The First Lady's and Dr. Biden's plane to go around because they're too close of proximity to a C17 air wake..Not to mention letting an Air France Jumbo almost decapitate a smaller commuter on the taxiway....You can bet there will be some major overhauling in policies and training in the ATC world..before something major of a air disaster happens..seems they've been lucky up til now...Remember..one little mistake when dealing with air Traffic can be catastrophic...And I do understand there is some stress that comes with the job..especially at O'Hara, JFK, Atlanta or LAX and these ATC's are compensated with top of the scale pay..but not all airports are like that, in fact most are not....I've stood in the cab of an ATC tower and watched the boys and girls have a ball tossing paper wads to deliberately plug up FDEP tubes and telling jokes to one another in one breath and then direct a plane to do something in another breath..multitasking at it's finest..but very little stress.

so, how do you fix it?

 

[weatherweenie]

so, how do you fix it?

Wash people out who should be washed out!

That is the biggest complaint I hear of the older controllers.

There are little to no consequences to the younger/newer controllers when they have 'deals'. They literally laugh it off.

My understanding is, in years past, if a controller had multiple deals, they were fired.

In today's FAA, controllers with multiple deals keep their jobs and maybe get a slap on the wrist.

Makes you want to fly, doesn't it? :worried:

 

[weatherweenie]

I can back up WW's claim...it's true and also alarming with regards to the incompetence, coupled with the arrogance that is coming on...

And I do understand there is some stress that comes with the job..especially at O'Hara, JFK, Atlanta or LAX and these ATC's are compensated with top of the scale pay..but not all airports are like that, in fact most are not....I've stood in the cab of an ATC tower and watched the boys and girls have a ball tossing paper wads to deliberately plug up FDEP tubes and telling jokes to one another in one breath and then direct a plane to do something in another breath..multitasking at it's finest..but very little stress.

Some of the biggest concerns of the controllers at the center I work at, and I work side by side with controllers, is their break rotation.

There are numerous times when a controller is on position as little as 5 minutes before they are given a 30 minute break. RARELY does a controller work the maximum two hours on position. Again, this may be the exception, but it happens daily at the center I work at. All this while pulling down a six figure salary.

 

[Buster]

so, how do you fix it?

As I said:

You can bet there will be some major overhauling in policies and training in the ATC world

Look...I mean no disrespect to you or the profession..ATC's have a lot of responsibility riding on their shoulders, and frankly I don't envy them for what they must have to put up with from pilots and their management..I wish them all great luck and job satisfaction.

 

[clester]

OK.
Here is the deal. It has nothing to do with pay, time on position, more training etc.

Those preoccupied with pay like weatherweenie are way off base.

When Marion Blakey became administrator (about 6 yrs ago I think) the FAA started a campaign along with congress to privatize ATC at any cost. I believe they set out to break the system (just like they are trying with education) so they can start over their way.

They tried cutting pay, they forced a so-called contract on us that restricted some and took away many other work rules and rights we had prior like (this was illegal btw). They went on campaigns to pin operational errors on controllers and discipline them for minor infractions. In other words, they made life as miserable as possible.

So, do you think some controllers have a bad attitude. Absolutely!

I could go into more detail and stories, but I won't.

Lets just say they wanted to get rid of the high paid experienced controllers like me and hire some new folks at half the pay (literally) by making their life at work miserable.

Guess what? they got their wish. Hundreds or even thousands have retired because of this. ( the ones hired after the strike in 1982 are eligible including me.)

So, we have these new guys that weren't put through the same rigor we were (over half of us got fired before we were certified)

The FAA and congress got what they wanted! Now they want to cut pay again and reduce retirement!

Yeah, that will fix those controllers.

This is the root of our problems and are just now coming to fruition.

Look for privatization talk soon. Yeah, that will work. NOT!

BTW, I don't plan on flying anytime soon!

 

[konakathy]

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I don't know how you could fall asleep watching a screen like that! Awesome.

 

[konakathy]

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[Buster]

This kept them awake on breaks..:blink:..I know, I know, it's bogus..because Ground Control would never of let them have clearance to stand on the approach...unless GC was dozing..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yfb_usoubg&feature=related