$50 billion ponzie

[wv-girl]

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/briefhistory3.html

On SS History.

But it's not a pure Ponzi scheme. It's mandatory participation. You have to pay in to get something. Or have a breadwinner pay in to recieve survivor benefits.

So the real difference is that with SS you know before you put your money in you will get screwed.

 

[Birchtree]

That's why it would be nice for the younger folks to be able to set aside 4% of their social security payments into a separate account similar to a Roth that they can invest with to gain further growth potential. Think how nice that would be right now with DCAing picking up golden prices. This is truly the redeemable option in most TSP accounts if only folks had the courage to let the contributions drift down the well absconding with low prices all the way down. I completely skipped the $11 and $12 range on the way down - went from $13.86 right into $10.32. Now I'll be given the chance to accumulate that range on the upside providing we don't rocket higher in two months time.

 

[Frixxxx]

So the real difference is that with SS you know before you put your money in you will get screwed.

Nothing gets by you WV-Girl..........:laugh:

 

[James48843]

Madoff scandal could lead to tax losses nationwide

By RACHEL BECK, AP Business Writer Rachel Beck, Ap Business Writer Thu Dec 18, 6:13 pm ET


NEW YORK – Even Uncle Sam may get burned by Bernard Madoff. Investors who lost their fortunes in Madoff's alleged Ponzi scheme will end up paying far less in taxes and may even be eligible for refunds, according to accounting experts. By some estimates, the Internal Revenue Service could be out as much as $17 billion in lost tax revenue.


"This is one more thing federal, state and local officials will have to deal with," said John Berrie, a tax partner at the law firm Bryan Cave in New York City. "It's another heavy box on their back."


In addition, investors may be counting on a federally mandated insurance fund to bail them out, but that program lacks the money to pay for all the claims that are likely to come.


The timing couldn't be worse. Unemployment has surged, meaning fewer workers are paying payroll taxes. And housing prices have dropped, reducing property taxes.


The recession so far has cost the federal government $200 billion in tax revenues for the 12 months that ended in November, according to estimates by Moody's Economy.com.


The Madoff case, which reportedly involves $50 billion, adds another layer to the fiscal crisis gripping the nation.


In New York, for instance, where thousands of workers have lost jobs on Wall Street and big-name investment firms have tallied massive losses, State Comptroller Thomas P. DiNapoli has estimated tax revenues will be down at least $3.5 billion by March 2010.


In wealthy enclaves nationwide, Madoff's investors are desperately seeking ways to get some of their money back. Some refunds might come from the Securities Investor Protection Corp., an industry-funded organization set up by the government to protect investors from fraud. Investors who qualify could get as much as $500,000 from the SIPC.


But that will not replace the millions of dollars than many lost, and such payments, if they come, will not happen fast. SIPC officials this week said the books of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC are in complete disarray. It could take six months or more to untangle them.


In addition, there are concerns that SIPC does not have enough money to pay out claims. It currently has $1.6 billion to make payouts, though the agency can tap a $1 billion line of credit and a $1 billion injection from the Treasury Department to get more money.


That's why some investors are considering the option of reporting "theft losses" under the IRS rules. Taxpayers who are defrauded by investment advisers or brokers can claim a deduction, as well as offset tax liabilities from the past.

 

[Mike]

This just proves the rich are stupid and gullible - same as the members of Congress who approved $700 billion in federal spending without any protection whatsoever against companies using the funds to fork over huge bonuses to their management.

Honestly, how dumb can people be? Anyone claiming returns that far exceed the market should be viewed with suspicion. Plus if you have millions to put at risk, why are you so concerned with an extra percentage point or two on investment performance? You could easily dump that in a sector or broad market ETF without having to worry about somebody stealing your money. On the other hand, if the taxable income bothers you, just invest it in muni bonds. Yeesh.

 

[Frixxxx]

That's why some investors are considering the option of reporting "theft losses" under the IRS rules. Taxpayers who are defrauded by investment advisers or brokers can claim a deduction, as well as offset tax liabilities from the past.

I'll check and see if we have a case against Barclay's. :laugh:

 

[Birchtree]

I own a nice chunk of BCS so they don't need any more trouble than they already have.

 

[budnipper1]

It's not this specific incident. The SEC reviewed them and found nothing. My concern is HOW MANY MORE are out there?
Usually, things like this are the TIP of the iceberg.:suspicious:

Not quite $50 billion, but here is another ponsi scheme crook in my local news. Pocket change to Madoff though...$9 million.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A former Brentwood stockbroker was officially charged Thursday with embezzling more than $9 million from local investors.

"... Park, who apparently attempted suicide after shutting down his office this summer, pleaded the Fifth at a bankruptcy hearing in August."
http://www.wsmv.com/news/18309175/d...=nash_7am&tmi=nash_7am_-1_07000112192008&ts=H


​

 

[Gumby]

Not quite $50 billion, but here is another ponsi scheme crook in my local news. Pocket change to Madoff though...$9 million.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A former Brentwood stockbroker was officially charged Thursday with embezzling more than $9 million from local investors.

"... Park, who apparently attempted suicide after shutting down his office this summer, pleaded the Fifth at a bankruptcy hearing in August."
http://www.wsmv.com/news/18309175/d...=nash_7am&tmi=nash_7am_-1_07000112192008&ts=H


​

Attempted suicide and failed......this guy can't do anything right.
He should have kept his powder dry.:nuts:

 

[fabijo]

Madoff scandal could lead to tax losses nationwide

Ah, that's ok. It'll only affect my great grandchildren at the rate we're borrowing.

 

[roskopfm]

Its only 50 billion, I read somewhere that since Oct 07 our country has lost 1.5 trillion in our retirements accounts alone. So 50 billion spread out is like pocket change.

 

[Silverbird]

In the overall scheme of things, it may be "small", but remember, this is ONE GUY and a couple of co-conspirators playing the shell game making this much money!!! And it's more money than the Auto bailout...ok it's not as much as Iraq and Afganistan but it's not like he was funding a pair of wars!

 

[KAPLOWD]

Were did the money go?

 

[Silverbird]

A lot of it never existed; what you do in a Ponzie scheme is you use the money from new investors and re-investment to pay off anyone who cashes out. The problem is when everyone starts to cash out (which was happening with the slowing economy) and you can't get enough suckers. Eventually Ponzie schemes always fail.

Of course, Madoff also has some very huge mansions, cars, etc.

 

[turbo23dog]

On CNBC this morning the analysts were saying the same thing about the money. I just can't believe that someone cunning enough to pull off such a scam for so long would not have squirrled away a pirate's fortune in a place no one could find.

 

[Silverbird]

On CNBC this morning the analysts were saying the same thing about the money. I just can't believe that someone cunning enough to pull off such a scam for so long would not have squirrled away a pirate's fortune in a place no one could find.

People who run Ponzie schemes usually believe it will last forever, even though gravity finally takes over every time, because you are NOT creating new wealth anywhere. And when the bottom falls out, you're too busy trying to find new and more desperate ways to pay the piper. The ones who think they are smart usually fall harder because they truely believe they can jinn the system.

 

[budnipper1]

:laugh: :nuts:

View attachment 6038

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090313/ap_on_re_us/madoff_scandal_jail

 

[Guest2]

GOD ! I might have to give this jerk showers and do strip searches on him !
Grrrrrrrrr !​

 

[budnipper1]

GOD ! I might have to give this jerk showers and do strip searches on him ! ​

Grrrrrrrrr !

Maybe not...just "delegate your authority", and​

Let "BUBBA" do it!​

​

 

[Guest2]

Maybe not...just "delegate your authority", and​

Let "BUBBA" do it!​

​

Good idea, Bubba's always looking for a Cash Cow somewhere !