US loses AAA Rating

[Buster]

U.S. loses AAA credit rating from S&P

​

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United States lost its top-notch AAA credit rating from Standard & Poor's on Friday in an unprecedented reversal of fortune for the world's largest economy.
S&P cut the long-term U.S. credit rating by one notch to AA-plus on concerns about the government's budget deficits and rising debt burden. The move is likely to raise borrowing costs eventually for the American government, companies and consumers.

http://news.yahoo.com/p-reconsideri...RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

 

[nnuut]

So what will happen to the "F" fund.
Here's one opinion:
http://www.alliancebernstein.com/CmsObjectABD/PDF/Research_WhitePaper/Treasury-Downgrade_110706.pdf

 

[nnuut]

Here's another:
If

following a downgrade, with no highly-liquid substitutes for U.S. Treasuries, the question becomes one of repricing. Investors will be willing to pay less for a bond that carries a lower rating and more risk. How much less? According to a New American article:

Tom Porcelli, chief economist at RBC Capital Markets, looked at the price performance of sovereign debt of four countries that lost their AAA rating and said the yields (which move inversely to bond prices) fell just six basis points — six one-hundredths of a percentage point — translating to a decline in bond prices scarcely worth mentioning.
​

A Bloomberg story pegs the impact as being a little more significant, but not earth shattering:

A cut of the U.S.’s AAA credit rating would likely raise the nation’s borrowing costs by increasing Treasury yields by 60 to 70 basis points over the “medium term,” JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s Terry Belton said on a conference call hosted by the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association.
​

http://seekingalpha.com/article/282227-how-a-downgrade-of-u-s-debt-will-impact-stock-and-bond-prices

 

[Boghie]

Ouch

Not good, really not good...

 

[FAB1]

For such a BiG, BIG story...
NO DOUBT we will see little impact.

:toung:

 

[clester]

Higher interest rates will be good for G fund.

 

[Warrenlm]

So a typical democrat plan to improve will be to reduce 2012 outlays by 0.00000000001% and increase that to 1% starting in year 2017 to achieve another $0.5T, accumulative, by year 2024. Of course both severe[/] reductions are from the rate of growth and from the currently inflated 2011 CR (no budget resolution under this group). Such catterwauling for the uninformed.

 

[James48843]

Of course- there are those who continue to be in a state of denial. But the fact is that the market wanted to see a serious effort made towards balance- that means TAX INCREASES as well as spending cuts, and when all it got was the republican "cut, cap" plan that cut spending, but does absolutely nothing towards increasing revenues (fixing the illogical tax breaks given to rich people) , then the rating people responded.

I put the downgrade firmly at the feet of the right-wing who refused to adjust taxes to fix the deficit.

 

[Boghie]

Of course- there are those who continue to be in a state of denial. But the fact is that the market wanted to see a serious effort made towards balance- that means TAX INCREASES as well as spending cuts, and when all it got was the republican "cut, cap" plan that cut spending, but does absolutely nothing towards increasing revenues (fixing the illogical tax breaks given to rich people) , then the rating people responded.

I put the downgrade firmly at the feet of the right-wing who refused to adjust taxes to fix the deficit.

James,

Show me big Spending Decreases for a moderate amount of time (long enough that it is somewhat stuctural - maybe six to twelve months) and I'll buy into tax increases. I have NEVER seen a spending cut. Show me the money!!! I can see you - so don't be talking future cuts and phantom cuts!!!

This last deal cuts FY2012 spending by 0.56%. Not enough.

And, Jabba the Hut will not even feel that 'cut'

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

Of course- there are those who continue to be in a state of denial. But the fact is that the market wanted to see a serious effort made towards balance- that means TAX INCREASES as well as spending cuts, and when all it got was the republican "cut, cap" plan that cut spending, but does absolutely nothing towards increasing revenues (fixing the illogical tax breaks given to rich people) , then the rating people responded.

I put the downgrade firmly at the feet of the right-wing who refused to adjust taxes to fix the deficit.

You are still blinded by your hatred for those that succeed. I really do feel sorry for you.

To re-iterate; I believe everyone should pay the same rate of taxes, OR (not in addition to) a national sales tax. There should be no tax benefits for or budget allocations to any NGO (private or public corp, et al); so no oil subsidies and no ethanol subsidies for example.

I think that more taxes could be a solution if it was for everyone. There is over 50% of our population that pays no taxes and a good portion of them get money BACK.

We have a spending problem, and you can't see it... period

Here I go to the Pen

 

[Boghie]

I don't know how this will work out...

But, TSP (either their fault or mine) didn't take my new allocation as of COB 20110804. Still fully invested in equities with an odd allocation...

What a joy!!!

 

[James48843]

You are still blinded by your hatred for those that succeed. I really do feel sorry for you.

The fact remains- it is NOT just "a spending problem".

Yes, we are spending too much. But we are also taxing WAY TOO LOW compared to our historic averages. We did just fine when we have had much higher tax levels on the wealthy. And that's a fact.

http://factcheck.org/2011/07/fiscal-factcheck/

We're taxing now at a lower rate than we have at any time since before World War II, and the low tax rates are causing harm to our economy.

And that's a fact.

The rating agencies downgraded the USA, because we didn't do something on BOTH sides of that equation. And without raising revenues, the rating agencies decided to send a message- that cuts alone isn't the right answer.

 

[Birchtree]

You will be nicely rewarded for that mistake. Now if the Congress would give us a break on the 15% tax on capital gains and qualified dividends money would flow into the economy like water. You know they have to be thinking long and hard on this topic somewhere. Back in the late 1970s the Congress helped out the utility industry by making any dividends that were reinvested in utilities tax free for a year - I was fortunate enough at the time to own 30 of those sweeties and was reinvesting my dividends as a matter of principle anyway. They could do the same for Wall Street if they wanted to. Free up some of the capital gain profits and money will roll.

 

[ExtremeWX]

You can tax all of the "Rich" at 100% (including all of the Fortune 500) and it will not make a dent in the negligent overspending this government does. I agree EVERYONE needs to pay a fair share of taxes including rich businesses, but the root of the problem is the spending. In my opinion, it is too late.... too much "free printing" on money diluting our dollar WILL cause inflation (a tax on everyone - the non revenue kind) which will put tremendous pressure on our declining economy. Unless a drastic cut in spending across the board AND a balanced budget is passed, this country will look VERY different in 2 years.
Our congress is so dysfunctional, there will not be any significant spending cuts in the near future.
If you want to invest in precious metals, I suggest lead and brass and be prepared to protect your ASSets.

 

[Boghie]

James,

FY2010:
- Revenue: $2,161,745
- Spending: $3,455,835

FY2007 (in 2010 dollars):
- Revenue: $2,700,351
- Spending: $2,871,598


This Administration is spending $584 Billion more inflation adjusted than we did in FY2007.

The Draconian cuts just agreed to reduces growth in FY2012 spending by $21 Billion. The expected spending for FY2012 is $3,729 Billion Almost $300 Billion more than FY2010. Now, that is getting serious about balancing the budget. Oh, I almost forgot, the Libs in the Senate haven't passed a budget since Obama became President. Serious.

Till we CUT at least $300 - $400 Billion/year in spending starting in FY2012 don't ask me for tax increases. Once we do so, I will equal it. But, since President Obama's tax increase on those making $200,000/$250,000 will only increase income by $70 Billion/year we need to incease the number of folks paying tax. James, 50% of Amercans do not pay income tax. Only the very poor (at the poverty line) should not pay into a system that funds stuff for all of us.

Trust, but verify.

 

[Birchtree]

We could solve a lot of our over spending by handing out wooden nickles to the minority at risk candidate that wants to intentionally have illegitimate children to get on welfare - the Democrats need to reduce this shameful incentive.

 

[burrocrat]

We could solve a lot of our over spending by handing out wooden nickles to the minority at risk candidate that wants to intentionally have illegitimate children to get on welfare - the Democrats need to reduce this shameful incentive.

Well hell then I'll do my part, I don't have a lot to give but I'll put it on the table.

Birch if you know any of them gals that's seen the error of their ways and is good at cleanin, send one my way, I'll put her to work.

 

[Warrenlm]

A note from our banker.....

"China, the largest creditor of the world's sole superpower, has every right now to demand the United States address its structural debt problems and ensure the safety of China's dollar assets," it said.
It urged the United States to cut military and social welfare expenditure. Further credit downgrades would very likely undermine the world economic recovery and trigger new rounds of financial turmoil, it said.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44044859

Any thoughts on what they might do on our auctions that could influence the need for QE3+? I think they've already shifted most to the short term, right?

 

[James48843]

Senator Bernie Sanders:
[h=6]Sen. Sanders on S&P downgrade: I find it interesting to see S&P so vigilant today in downgrading the US credit rating. Where were they 4 years ago when they, and other credit rating agencies, helped cause this horrendous recession by providing AAA ratings to worthless sub-prime mortgage securities on behalf of Wall Street investment firms? Where were they last December when Congress and the White House drove up the national debt by $700 billion by extending Bush's tax breaks for the rich?

[/h]Good question.

 

[Birchtree]

I have a married woman with two kids from Nicaragua who comes in every 5 weeks and works for five hours nonstop and takes away $100. You can't get a welfare recipient to work like that, be serious. We could wipe out chronic poverty tomorrow if only women would get married before having children or give up their illegitimate kids for adoption. But there's no money in doing what's right.