Social Security... A Ponzi Scheme??

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Aviator_Guy

Aviator_Guy

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I started this thread to get an understanding on how everyone feels about the future of Social Security. I’ve heard some say that Social Security is almost like a Ponzi Scheme, so I googled it and clicked on the Wikipedia link. The first sentence really makes you think, if the shoe fits...hmmmm:blink::blink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned.
 
" The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee".

They may have as well called it the Socialism Unsecured tax. Theres no voluntary "enticement" about it, other investments probably can better "guarantee".....but hey, the feds only "borrowed" the money, right?
 
This is the problem!!:nuts:


But won't the Trust Fund pay for benefits?
No. Tomorrow's workers will pay for tomorrow's benefits because Social Security is a pay-as-you-go program. There is no money in Social Security's Trust Fund. For years, Social Security has taken in more money than it has paid out; but instead of saving these surpluses, the government spends them and writes the Trust Fund an IOU, a special-issue government bond. When Social Security cashes in these IOUs to pay benefits, starting in 2017, the money still has to come from somewhere--cutting other spending, raising taxes, or slashing benefits. Remember, this starts in just 12 years. Personal accounts directly address the trust fund problem. The government can tap into the Trust Fund today when it needs money, but it would not be able to take money from worker's own personal accounts.
http://www.socialsecurityreform.org/fastfacts/index.cfm
 
Social Security was developed and dependent on the fact that couples had huge family back in the day. Those huge family would pay and spread out the burden of the cost. Looked good one paper when it was developed but long term it was doomed from the start.
 
Wikilinks is undermined these days by those who want you to think a certain way. Obviously they don't want anyone, to include FERs types to receive SS. I think anyone can edit wikiwokiwahinnee anytime they want to. Anyone can edit it to say that it is a useful retirement program, which it obviously is for many. Too bad, wikiwahaniee used to be a cool dictionary. People tried earnestly to keep it decent. Sorta corrupt today.

Aviator_Guy said:
I started this thread to get an understanding on how everyone feels about the future of Social Security. I’ve heard some say that Social Security is almost like a Ponzi Scheme, so I googled it and clicked on the Wikipedia link. The first sentence really makes you think, if the shoe fits...hmmmm:blink::blink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned.
Click to expand...
 
Combination of Ponzi and Pyramid. On it's face it could never be sustained. If it was not a government program, it would be prosecuted as a huge Madoff style scam.

The argument that we should not keep our own money and be responsible for our own retirement is based on fraud at the outset.
 
SkyPilot said:
Combination of Ponzi and Pyramid. On it's face it could never be sustained. If it was not a government program, it would be prosecuted as a huge Madoff style scam.

The argument that we should not keep our own money and be responsible for our own retirement is based on fraud at the outset.
Click to expand...
It should have been an insurance program from the start.....That way, it could have been lower in fees/bill and then only paid out to those that really needed it, just retiring wouldn't make you a beneficiary.
Then it would never had to support the numbers it does now....Also, I believe that people on the "insurance" would never had to pay taxes on the payouts and they could juice the economy with stimulus once a month!

It is not illegal if the gov't mandates it?....OR IS IT?:mad:
 
Aviator_Guy said:
I started this thread to get an understanding on how everyone feels about the future of Social Security.
Click to expand...

That is a question filled with the most wonderful Promise and Hope of a never ending 'wonderful future' for someone like me.

Ahhhh -- Honestly I am one of the last to enjoy the immense benefits it offers -- and for that I am immensely grateful.

I have heard since childhood -- Social Security would NOT last and yet through All these years --- it has not only continued but now my payments are Forever 'guaranteed' !!!

Yes -- I did say 'guaranteed' -- and rightfully so -- as it's based on what I have put in over the years.

People after me --- will have to work longer -- and the payments will be substantially reduced beginning about the time I die....

Sooooo I feel -- according to the Social Security Administrations updated and yearly -- projections --- I will have more than I need.
 
Social Security promises just don’t make a lot of common sense to me. I’ve been paying into it since I started pumping gas back in the early 1970’s make about a buck an hour. Anyone with any common sense knows you can’t take out more money than you put in, especially if the folks running it spend all of the money coming in and then some. They are like totally living in a fantasy land and some of them actually believe what they are doing is the best for the country. They seem to think, “Ask not what you do for your Country, Ask What Your Country Can do for YOU!! ROFL… They are promising the world on the backs of our kids and they just don’t get it. And now they want to cut Social Security Taxes next year!!! LOL… What they need to do is cut spending and when they are done, cut even more spending. They should follow what Americans are doing today and that is they are cutting up their Credit Cards and reducing their Debt AND Spending!!:blink:

I’m 53 which is the tail end of the Baby Boomer generation and I don’t factor in Social Security as an income stream when I retire. That’s the primary reason I’ve been maxed out in the TSP since day one. I know if I keep doing this, I will have financial freedom. I sure feel a lot more comfortable having a very fast accumulating nest egg. :worried:

Back in the 1800’s the United States built a continental railroad despite the fact they didn’t have enough money to pay for it. If my history is correct, they paid for it by giving those who built it federal land in exchange for them to build it. I would be happy to forfeit my Social Security and Medicare in exchange for 200 acres in Montana or Alaska… LOL… I could trade in my old Piper Warrior airplane in for a Husky tail dragger and put some snow skis on it…. Hmmmmm Become a Bush Pilot…LOL… Yeah, That’s the Ticket!!! :cool::cool:
 
Aviator_Guy said:
Social Security promises just don’t make a lot of common sense to me.

At 53 -- YOU are one of the LUCKY ones !!!

It's something you have paid into all your life -- and in the end you get the rewards -- hallaleujia !!! Thank ya Jesus !!!

I’ve been paying into it since I started pumping gas back in the early 1970’s make about a buck an hour.

Then you -- like me (a few years older) will reap the rewards !!!

Anyone with any common sense knows you can’t take out more money than you put in, especially if the folks running it spend all of the money coming in and then some.

Ah haaa -- You must have missed the part of every place you worked has also paid their share -- of your Social Security payments. Yes my friend Life for us has been Good -- Very Good !!

They are like totally living in a fantasy land and some of them actually believe what they are doing is the best for the country.

It is like everything else the US of A implemented -- seriously -- it honestly started off with the best of intentions and sounded very practical.

They seem to think, “Ask not what you do for your Country, Ask What Your Country Can do for YOU!! ROFL…

My dear wonderful friend -- The Society back then was Nothing like it evolved into. Way back when S.S. was started the people had a 'Work Ethic' - and The Government was way more geared towards 'responsible living'

YOU are LOOKING at what our Society has become. You are LOOKING at the Parasites getting fater and fater and everything expected more and more for FREE. YOU are LOOKING at a GOVERNMENT that does not blink an eye to borrow Trillions ans Trillions.

This is NOT what was meant to evolve when S.S. was established.

They are promising the world on the backs of our kids and they just don’t get it.

You are WRONG !! They entirely get it and our Kids and our Grandkids are the very ones meant to pay for it. Corporate Interests are what matters -- NOT the peace, security, safety, and contentment of the masses.

Open your eyes my friend and cheer their success. Seriously -- look at the Blackrock Execs and the Bank Execs and the Oil Execs (during Bush) and see how they did while the masses lost jobs and went into poverty.

Most importantly LOOK at HISTORY -- at alll the other generations and you will see the exact same thing. America is Falling my friend - it was an Empire that rose like no other.

And now they want to cut Social Security Taxes next year!!! LOL…

Wake up my friend. Who is THEY. Who wants to keep the 'Blinders on'. Who would most want to keep the 'Pacifiers of contentment' in our mouths??

What they need to do is cut spending and when they are done, cut even more spending. They should follow what Americans are doing today and that is they are cutting up their Credit Cards and reducing their Debt AND Spending!!:blink:

Dear Friend - seriously I feel for YOU - I really do. We (most of us that have some intelligence and were able to see the end result) have been screaming this since the National Debt began in the 80s. We KNEW it would get WORSE.

It is too LATE - The New World Order has started !!

It has long been a deliberate plan.

I’m 53 which is the tail end of the Baby Boomer generation and I don’t factor in Social Security as an income stream when I retire. That’s the primary reason I’ve been maxed out in the TSP since day one. I know if I keep doing this, I will have financial freedom. I sure feel a lot more comfortable having a very fast accumulating nest egg. :worried:

Back in the 1800’s the United States built a continental railroad despite the fact they didn’t have enough money to pay for it. If my history is correct, they paid for it by giving those who built it federal land in exchange for them to build it. I would be happy to forfeit my Social Security and Medicare in exchange for 200 acres in Montana or Alaska… LOL… I could trade in my old Piper Warrior airplane in for a Husky tail dragger and put some snow skis on it…. Hmmmmm Become a Bush Pilot…LOL… Yeah, That’s the Ticket!!! :cool::cool:
Click to expand...

Live your life one day at at time -- seriously -- and make the most of each day you live!!!

My first song 'An Antiwar Song' - had the following lyrics:

'I want to go where I can be alone
Until the world is shown
The Government's a show
and we are all its cast'

That's when I was a teenager -- pretty heavy -- and rings even truer today than it did back then.

PEACE MAN -- Find the PEACE within

God grant me the serenity to accept .... it's the best way to handle it because there are things we simply cannot change.
 
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Frixxxx said:
It should have been an insurance program from the start.....That way, it could have been lower in fees/bill and then only paid out to those that really needed it, just retiring wouldn't make you a beneficiary.
Then it would never had to support the numbers it does now....Also, I believe that people on the "insurance" would never had to pay taxes on the payouts and they could juice the economy with stimulus once a month!

It is not illegal if the gov't mandates it?....OR IS IT?:mad:
Click to expand...

I guess they could have tried to impose this (SS) as mandatory insurance by use of the Commerce Clause the way they are trying to do with health insurance now... oh, wait. Just ruled unconstitutional. And, insurance only works when most participants don't use it. Almost everyone who would by "retirement insurance" will collect on it. And if they live to collect, most will live long enough to collect more than the premiums they paid in...
 
Aviator_Guy said:
...

Back in the 1800’s the United States built a continental railroad despite the fact they didn’t have enough money to pay for it. If my history is correct, they paid for it by giving those who built it federal land in exchange for them to build it. I would be happy to forfeit my Social Security and Medicare in exchange for 200 acres in Montana or Alaska… LOL… I could trade in my old Piper Warrior airplane in for a Husky tail dragger and put some snow skis on it…. Hmmmmm Become a Bush Pilot…LOL… Yeah, That’s the Ticket!!! :cool::cool:
Click to expand...

They can probably arrange for that.

200 acres in Montana is all it will take?

Even comes with a pole-barn you can put a different door on, and convert into a hanger:
http://www.landwatch.com/Madison-County-Montana-Land-for-sale/pid/144006521

 
SkyPilot said:
I guess they could have tried to impose this (SS) as mandatory insurance by use of the Commerce Clause the way they are trying to do with health insurance now... oh, wait. Just ruled unconstitutional. And, insurance only works when most participants don't use it. Almost everyone who would by "retirement insurance" will collect on it. And if they live to collect, most will live long enough to collect more than the premiums they paid in...
Click to expand...
It was started as an insurance that was funded by a federal tax format...

Remember OASDI? Old Age, Survivor, Disability Insurance?

It was the funding that was different from "policy" holding and more of a tax.

The Ponzi part now falls into the baby-making part...The US Citizen is not holding up there reproductive part of the bargain!:embarrest:
 
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