Proposed Changes to CSRS and FERS - CBO

luv2read

Active member
You will not believe this Feb 2007 document from the CBO. I came across it while doing some research. Chapter 2, Functions 600, 650 and 700; and Chapter 3, Revenue Options are the relevant sections. I haven't had time to look up the 2008 version but I'm sure not much has changed when it comes to these things.

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=7821

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/78xx/doc7821/600.htm

I'm not posting the whole document, just the most alarming paragraphs. I strongly encourage you to read this and check the links as well.

Federal income-security programs provide cash or in-kind benefits to individuals. Some, such as Food Stamps, Supplemental Security Income, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, and the earned income tax credit, are means-tested; others, including unemployment compensation and civil service retirement and disability payments, are not tied to recipients' income or assets.
Retirement and disability programs—including military retirement—constitute the largest portion of federal spending in function 600, accounting for about one-third of the category's mandatory spending.

in addition to the options in this section, see the following:
Revenue Option 13 Include Employer-Paid Premiums for Income-Replacement Insurance in Employees' Taxable Income

Revenue Option 20 Include Social Security Benefits in Calculating the Phaseout of the Earned Income Tax Credit

Revenue Option 41 Increase Federal Employees' Contributions to Pension Plans

Modify the Formula Used to Set Federal Pensions
This option would use a five-year average instead of a three-year average to compute benefits for workers who retire under CSRS and FERS after September 30, 2007... The average new CSRS retiree would receive about $1,250 less in 2008 and $6,530 less over five years than under current law. By comparison, the average new FERS retiree would receive $420 less in 2006 and $2,190 less over five years.
Under an alternative approach, a four-year average would be used for CSRS and FERS... The average new CSRS retiree would receive $600 less in 2008 and $3,140 less over five years while the average new FERS retiree would receive $200 less in 2008 and $1,060 less over five years.

One rationale for using a longer average is that it would better align federal practices with those in the private sector... The change in formula also would encourage some federal employees to work longer in order to boost their pensions...A rationale against this option is that cutting pension benefits would reduce the attractiveness of the government's civilian compensation package. In addition, this option would reduce benefits more under CSRS than under FERS because CSRS provides a bigger defined-benefit pension than FERS. Federal employees under FERS also participate in Social Security and receive government contributions to the 401(k)-like Thrift Savings Plan, while those employees under CSRS do not.

Restructure the Government's Matching Contributions to the Thrift Savings Plan
This option would restructure the TSP contribution schedule so that the government made the full 5 percent match only when employees contribute 10 percent of their salary. Specifically, federal agencies would continue to automatically contribute an amount equal to 1 percent of employees' earnings and match the first 2 percent of voluntary contributions dollar for dollar (a maximum match of 2 percent). Contributions ranging from 3 percent to 10 percent would be matched at 25 cents perdollar (a maximum match of another 2 percent). That restructuring would save $359 million in 2008 and $2.1 billion over the 2008-2012 period.
There are several rationales against implementing the option. First, a lower government match on smaller contributions could reduce some workers' incentive to participate in the TSP or to continue contributing at their current rates. Second, the government might be faulted for saving money at the expense of those employees who are least likely to contribute a higher percentage of their earnings to the TSP—young workers and others with relatively low pay. Third, changing the TSP could be considered unfair because one factor that affected many people's decision to accept employment with the government or to switch from the Civil Service Retirement System to FERS was their assumption that TSP benefits would remain the same. (note from me: isn't this one of the arguments we made about the IFT rule?)

Increase Federal Employees' Contributions to Pension Plans
Most workers covered by the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS)—the older of the two major retirement plans for civilian employees of the federal government—are required to contribute 7 percent of their salary to their retirement fund in exchange for a defined-benefit pension. (In a defined-benefit plan, the level of benefits is set by formula and is not affected by the amount an employee contributes.) CSRS workers do not pay Social Security payroll taxes, however. Employees covered by the other main plan for federal civilian workers, the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), must generally contribute at least 0.8 percent of their salary toward a defined-benefit plan and pay 6.2 percent in Social Security taxes. Both CSRS and FERS employees are also allowed to make voluntary contributions (up to the Internal Revenue Service's limit of $15,500 in 2007) to the Thrift Savings Plan, the government's counterpart to a defined-contribution 401(k) plan.
This option would raise the contributions that most federal civilian workers would have to make to their defined-benefit retirement plan by 0.5 percentage points relative to current levels. The increase would be phased in over several years, starting at 0.25 percentage points in calendar year 2008, growing to 0.4 percentage points in 2009, and finally reaching 0.5 percentage points in 2010. (Those increases match the ones that the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 imposed through 2002.) Adopting those changes for federal civilian employees would boost revenues by $0.3 billion in fiscal year 2008 and by a total of $3.7 billion through 2012 (assuming that the retirement contributions that agencies made on behalf of their employees were unchanged, as was the case under the Balanced Budget Act).
The main rationale for requiring federal workers to pay more for their retirement plans is to make the government's costs for civilian pension benefits more like those of private-sector employers, without reducing the level of salary replacement that workers receive once they retire. Raising the contributions of current employees would arguably be better than cutting the benefits paid to current retirees (the approach in Option 600-3), because workers could accommodate the effective pay cut by making smaller adjustments to their spending over a larger number of years. (Some employees could choose to maintain their previous take-home pay by reducing their contributions to the Thrift Savings Plan.) (note from me: adjust your lifestyle so we can balance the budget on your back)
An argument against raising employees' retirement contributions is that the increases would be roughly equivalent to a 0.5 percent pay cut for most federal civilian workers and thus would diminish the government's compensation package relative to that of the private sector. (The large private firms that still offer defined-benefit plans seldom require employees to contribute to them.) Those factors could weaken the government's ability to attract new personnel and might cause it to have to increase cash compensation for its employees or settle for having a less skilled workforce.
 
It's my understanding that both the CSRS and FERS, unlike Social Security, are fiscally sound because federal employment continues to increase. Therefore, the only rationale for changing the formulas is theoretical, i.e. make them more like industry, and/or lets balance the budget on the backs of civil servants. Fortunately, since the federal government is competing with the private sector and civil servants have a more portable pension, i.e. TSP and Social Security, it's not as easy for the politicians to change the rules.:laugh:-----Jim
 
It's my understanding that both the CSRS and FERS, unlike Social Security, are fiscally sound because federal employment continues to increase. Therefore, the only rationale for changing the formulas is theoretical, i.e. make them more like industry, and/or lets balance the budget on the backs of civil servants. Fortunately, since the federal government is competing with the private sector and civil servants have a more portable pension, i.e. TSP and Social Security, it's not as easy for the politicians to change the rules.:laugh:-----Jim
The CSRS/FERS defined-benefit pensions and SS are as "sound" as "the full faith and credit"; we all know that SS will be broke by 2030 and they are tinkering with fixing it again. However, TSP is defined-contribution, and has different rules.

Not easy to change the rules? They just sneak them in on other bills....like HR1108 Family Smoking and Tobacco Control Act. Who's looking at that for changes to fed benefits? Nobody. A TSP-specific bill that everyone was alerted to and watching, HR6500 Thrift Savings Plan Enhancement Act, is sitting there with no action; they took the exact wording and stuck it on the end of HR1108 and passed that. The other method is to let FRTIB make changes under its authority to do so and don't take any action to stop it - like the IFT rule. How many people are paralyzed in G fund now....all to the good for borrowing from it for the budget under the CR instead of raising the debt ceiling.

Maybe its not relavent after more then a year later ? :confused:
It's more relevant now with the current situation as more of us get closer to retirement. It hasn't been updated, which means all the options are still on the table.
 
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Some real work of art employer we have here eh!

It really is time to go with **** like this happening all around us, and to folks who have dedicated 30+ years to the system.

Snakes in suites the lot of em!
 
Some real work of art employer we have here eh!

It really is time to go with **** like this happening all around us, and to folks who have dedicated 30+ years to the system.

Snakes in suites the lot of em!

EL, Welcome to the MB ! ;)
 
Thanks SBear.

I'm not new to the board per se, and I have posted at times in the past. I find the reading here informative and helps me manage the meager amount of TSP holdings I have. Call me a lurker if you must.

Since I plan (god willing) to retire Dec 31 2009, an article such as this gives me great pause.

There appears to be no consideration to "grandfathering" some of us near retirement, and I would not put it past them to go after the current retirees also.

I am particularly concerned as it relates to how they want to tax as income the HSA benefit some of us have. They do this with the HSA, you can bet our "benefit" of the Govt picking up 70% of our health care costs will be next.

The sons and daughters of the "Greatest Generation" the BOOMERS are being fleeced, and there appears there is nothing we can do. It ain't what you make it's what you keep that matters!

Scary times for all of us I would say!
 
I don't mind at all that we are supporting current SS recipients, that Greatest Generation, our parents. They deserve it, and if there wasn't SS I'd still be doing it - all on my own. Just as I was THEIR responsibility as a child, they are MY responsibility NOW. I do resent being fleeced to support indigents, illegals, criminals, countries that hate us, a war effort we had no business starting, innumerable pork projects, rescue financials and their executives while retirement accounts take a bath, etc.; while our infrastructure crumbles, schools get dumbed down, jobs disappear overseas, etc. See how NAFTA has worked...US jobs gone, but now the companies need help. In the long run it hurts, not helps employers and the economy. Many economists predicted it but they were overruled by lobbyists, industry and the last 2 administrations.
 
Biggest hole is for Medicare/Medicaid due to medical costs rising at double the rate of inflation. Perscription Drug Benefit made it worse. Social Security is about half of the problem that Medicare/Medicaid are.
 
Ross Perot on NAFTA, "giant sucking sound going south."

Pres. H.W. Bush whats to increase export and that is what NAFTA will do and that is why he drafted it. Did it?

 
Bush thought of it....but Clinton made it a reality.
NAFTA was initially pursued by politicians in the United States and Canada supportive of free trade, led by Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and the Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari. The three countries signed NAFTA in December 1992, subject to ratification by the legislatures of the three countries. There was considerable opposition in all three countries. In the United States, NAFTA was able to secure passage after Bill Clinton made its passage a major legislative priority in 1993. Since the agreement had been signed by Bush under his fast-track prerogative, Clinton did not alter the original agreement, but complemented it with NAAEC and NAALC. After intense political debate and the negotiation of these side agreements, the U.S. House of Representatives passed NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by 234-200 vote (132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor; 43 Republicans, 156 Democrats, and 1 independent against),[6] and the U.S. Senate passed it on the last day of its 1993 session, November 20, 1993, by 61-38 vote (34 Republicans and 27 Democrats voting in favor; 10 Republicans and 28 Democrats against, with 1 Democrat opponent not voting.[

Let's not forget how NAFTA was drafted (in secret with no popular input)
and rammed through by precisely those capitalist corporate/state
interests who expected to profit from it. "Regulation" in capitalism has
almost always been done by the regulated, from the first anti-trust
legislation drafted by a Rockefeller crony onward. What they haven't
controlled they have fought like hell to elimiate, e.g.,
Reagan/Bush/Thatcher's "deregulation" movement. If the capitalist are for
it you can be damned certain that they control it in their own interests.
 
I knew that I just could not find a good Clinton quote. He is just as guilty. Why did we not vote for the guy from Texas? I did.
 
There was no "giant sucking sound"... well at least it didn't last, Machilldoros are the only thing left and they existed before NAFTA. Mexican economy is a giant basket case. China's got their number and we don't have a free trade agreement with China.
 
There was no "giant sucking sound"... well at least it didn't last, Machilldoros are the only thing left and they existed before NAFTA. Mexican economy is a giant basket case. China's got their number and we don't have a free trade agreement with China.

Yet.
 
From the eminent David Walker, Comptroller General of the United States – until recently.

Part 2 on Social Security



Part 3 on Social Security

 
Not going to happen, they aren't interested. They already got into our market without one, and surely things like toxic toys, Anti Monopoly laws (China issue - against US companies Microsoft, Intel....) and IP violations are going to be issues during a China-US FTA negotiation. They like what they have now, especially with their grand spanking new "anti-monopoly law". Those guys keep me in a job. And give me grey crest feathers.

U.S. business didn't get it. Never Never put your eggs in one basket, especially if the babysitter looks too happy about helping you! But did they listen to us? Noooo.
 
Sorry LOV if you just now found that document.

It's been the republican agenda for years. Cut employee benefits. Cut federal workers, and cut federal worker retirement benefits. Just a small part of the massive republican attempt to lower the standard of living for all americans. It's "your on your own."

To them- The only way to cut mandatory spending, is to radically reduce employee benefits for federal employees. That's part of why they are so busy outsourcing everything to their buddies in the private sector. They would rather not tax social security above $103K in income, so that the rich can keep more of their money, while the country goes broke. they would rather do it on the backs of the workingman than raise a capital gains tax above 15% on gains over a million a year.


Take a look at the real problem- This is what is going to happen to social security:



Now, you can fix that by either allowing a part of the Social Security Fund to invest in stocks, thereby increasing revenue; or you can tweek the retirement age (mine is now 67), or you can reduce benefits. Now the same is true - only worse, for medicare in the future. Because politicians won't fight against the insurance lobby, the medical care system in this country is unsustainable, because not everyone is covered, and the insurance companies are the middlemen who are rationing care, and millions go without coverage.​



No politician will do any of the above, at least not yet.​

We NEED national health care, just so that we can bring costs under control. We NEED national health care, so that we can get rid of the waste in the insurance industry.​

Fact: Not one insurance company cures a sick person. But they take roughly 30% of every health care dollar spent in this country.​

Fact: Many of the expensive tests done now are repeats done by one doctor's office, to increase the doctor's income, and defend the doctor in the future against lawsuits. If there was simply a single - digital electronic medical record for each person, that all doctors could have equal access to (many european countries do this now) then we would save billions in unnecessary tests.​

(sigh).​

We can do better.​
 
Now, you can fix that by either allowing a part of the Social Security Fund to invest in stocks, thereby increasing revenue; or you can tweek the retirement age (mine is now 67), or you can reduce benefits. Now the same is true - only worse, for medicare in the future. Because politicians won't fight against the insurance lobby, the medical care system in this country is unsustainable, because not everyone is covered, and the insurance companies are the middlemen who are rationing care, and millions go without coverage.
At some point in the very near future we are going to have to reconsile being a capitalist nation versus a democratic one. So far the decision has been made by our fearless leaders tacetly, but I have a feeling this is going to be a growing issue in politics to come. Theres only so much that you can take from the working class before the system breaks French Revolution style.
 
At some point in the very near future we are going to have to reconsile being a capitalist nation versus a democratic one. So far the decision has been made by our fearless leaders tacetly, but I have a feeling this is going to be a growing issue in politics to come. Theres only so much that you can take from the working class before the system breaks French Revolution style.
Interesting point, ChemEng. As Rousseau (probably, maybe Antoinette) said, if the peasants have no bread then let them eat cake! At least our aristocracy (the CEO's) won't have to worry about a guillotine ..... :nuts:

Lady
 
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