He was NOT Pardoned

[Callme_CO]

I think the President should have stepped in and commuted Paris' sentence. He can't seriously believe that driving on a suspended license (a misdemeanor) is worthy of jail time whereas committing perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to federal agents (4 felony convictions) is not. What was he thinking?

Only got one thing to say....about any president....it's good to have friends in high places.

 

[tsptalk]

I'm sure Vegas has odds on Libby being eventually pardoned and I would not take that bet no matter how favorable the odds.

Current asking price on the Libby bets according to intrade.com:

Pardon by Dec07 - 20% chance (get 4 to 1 on your money)
Pardon by end of term - 57% chance (less than even money)

 

[rokid]

Having read this diatribe...

Diatribe, what do you mean diatribe? Well, I'll, I'll...:laugh:

Hope you all had a nice holiday!

To paraphrase Show-me's signature: Always remember you're right, just like everyone else.

 

[Show-me]

You guys are all right IMO. Democrat, Republican, or what ever it is the way the game is played. They are all crooks paid by lobbyist to help the highest bidder. I would suggest quit beating each other up and find us a honest politician..........................damn that's a oxymoron. LOL I'm just being cynical.

 

[FundSurfer]

Having read this diatribe, I do have a comment. Clinton pardoned on his way out of office -- a time honored Presidential right. They all do it and W. Bush will do it as well. Libby's pardon should not have been unexpected. Libby was privey to a lot of secrets. Bush doesn't want Libby to write his inevitable book until he gets out of office. I'm sure Vegas has odds on Libby being eventually pardoned and I would not take that bet no matter how favorable the odds.

 

[rokid]

If you think releasing sex offenders and murderers out in the streets did not cause any harm or death, you are naive.

Clinton pardoned/commuted 396 people. Ronald Reagan granted clemency to 393 convicted criminals. The average number of clemency approvals per administration since Truman is 655. President Bush has only granted 113 petitions for clemency. While Bush was governor, Texas executed 152 people. Bush is tough on criminals, except when they work in the White House. http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/actions_administration.htm

You stated that Clinton released sex offenders and murderers into the streets. That statement appears to be unsupported by the facts.

Bush was in office when 911 happened. Richard Clarke tried, unsuccessfully, for eight months to get someone in the Bush administration to pay attention to Bin Laden and the terrorist threat. Consequently, to lay the whole 911 fiasco at Clinton's feet and absolve Bush of any responsibility ignores the facts. Another instance of this administration's non-accountability policy.

Finally, Republicans, and particularly conservative Republicans, made a huge deal of Clinton's alleged perjury to a grand jury. However, Clinton was not convicted of perjury!

Now, when a conservative Republican is convicted of perjury, the Republicans cry entrapment. How was Libby entrapped? Entrapped by a Republican prosecutor? Didn't he just lie to investigators and the grand jury? Didn't a jury convict him of multiple counts of lying under oath? Didn't the sentence conform to the sentencing guidelines? Shouldn't he be punished? After all, investigations are hard to pursue if the people being questioned can lie with impunity. Of course, if we use stress positions and water boarding....

When your country attacks another, it is good form to show solidarity.

Not, if your country is wrong. I made that mistake during Vietnam. I won't make it again.

Finally, what are the odds that Bush pardons Libby before he leaves office? I'd say about 100:1.:laugh:

 

[SkyPilot]

Wrong on all counts. Bush supporter? Wrong. Personally, I am more of an issue supporter. I agree with issues, not people. I support some things Bush has done, but disagree with a larger number of other things he has done. I'm really too conservative for Bush. He's a lib. But what I do enjoy doing a lot is exposing hypocrites. And if somebody criticizes Bush for commuting this guy's sentence for this fabricated crime but fully defends Clinton's pardon of 140 felons, I'd say that is a hypocrite. Thanks for making my day!

Point to VirginiaBob. True thought.

 

[VirginiaBob]

It seems to be a common response. Bush supporters can no longer support him by saying that he doesn't lie or that he is a good president, they just start attacking Clinton. I for one consider Clinton's gravest crime to be that he screwed up enough to make a nice bullseye for Bush supporters so that they don't have to deal with their own more serious problem of sponsoring a dimwit who started a war by lying and deceiving the American public..a war that is turning out to be the worst foreign policy decision in the history of the U.S.

Wrong on all counts. Bush supporter? Wrong. Personally, I am more of an issue supporter. I agree with issues, not people. I support some things Bush has done, but disagree with a larger number of other things he has done. I'm really too conservative for Bush. He's a lib. But what I do enjoy doing a lot is exposing hypocrites. And if somebody criticizes Bush for commuting this guy's sentence for this fabricated crime but fully defends Clinton's pardon of 140 felons, I'd say that is a hypocrite. Thanks for making my day!

 

[SkyPilot]

There is plenty of blame to go around...

Congress went along with both presidents Clinton and Bush, no use trying to pretend otherwise. In either case, for congress to try to take refuge in ignorance just makes them pitiful, as it is their job to be informed.

That's why congress has lower approval ratings than the president.

 

[ayla]

It seems to be a common response. Bush supporters can no longer support him by saying that he doesn't lie or that he is a good president, they just start attacking Clinton. I for one consider Clinton's gravest crime to be that he screwed up enough to make a nice bullseye for Bush supporters so that they don't have to deal with their own more serious problem of sponsoring a dimwit who started a war by lying and deceiving the American public..a war that is turning out to be the worst foreign policy decision in the history of the U.S.

If you think releasing sex offenders and murderers out in the streets did not cause any harm or death, you are naive. If you think passing up the chance to get Osama handed to you on a silver platter did not cause any deaths, you are naive. If you think bombing a country to keep the attention off your infidelity caused no deaths, you are naive.

 

[SkyPilot]

No one died when Clinton lied.

Of course, there are those that contend that people did... not a bad bumper sticker slogan though...

 

[VirginiaBob]

1. I assume the sex offender you're referring to is Mel Reynolds. According to this Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Reynolds, Reynolds served all of his 5 year sentence for the sexual offenses and 42 months of a 78 month sentence for bank fraud and lying to SEC investigators. Clinton commuted 36 months of the 78 month bank fraud/lying sentence. It's ironic that Libby's sentence for lying to federal investigators, essentially the same crime that Reynolds committed, was only 30 months. However, Bush though that was too harsh.:toung:

2. Who were the murderers that Clinton released?

3. Regarding the bombing of Iraq, House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.), Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.), House Majority Leader Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.), and Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) all supported the bombing in the face of Republican accusations that it was politically motivated. 'Told of these criticisms, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.), ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, branded them "preposterous," and noted that Osama bin Laden, suspected of bankrolling the installations that were bombed, "is one bad mother."' - Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/react082198.htm
Finally, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, coordinated the attack. Cohen is a Republican.

4. Regarding Clinton's passing up a chance to get Bin Laden, Clinton addressed that issue in his 24 Sep 2006 interview with Fox's Chris Wallace: 'The people on my political right who say I didn’t do enough, spent the whole time I was president saying ‘Why is he so obsessed with Bin Laden?’ And that was ‘Wag the Dog’ when he tried to kill him. My Republican Secretary of Defense, - and I think I’m the only person since WWII to have a Secretary of Defense from the opposition party - Richard Clarke, and all the intelligence people said that I ordered a vigorous attempt to get Osama Bin Laden and came closer apparently than anybody has since.' Richard Clarke confirms Clinton's statement in his book.

Just a tip: Don't forget to look through both sides of that one way mirror.

1 &2. Here are Clintons list of pardons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton

3. That is called showing class, unlike the current Democrats who have been criticizing Afghanistan and Iraq from the very beginning (even though they voted for it). When your country attacks another, it is good form to show solidarity.

4. None of which relieves him of the responsibilty. If one is more concerned with looking bad politically then doing the right thing, they shouldn't be president. 3000 American civilians died for God sakes as a result of this inaction.

 

[rokid]

If you think releasing sex offenders and murderers out in the streets did not cause any harm or death, you are naive. If you think passing up the chance to get Osama handed to you on a silver platter did not cause any deaths, you are naive. If you think bombing a country to keep the attention off your infidelity caused no deaths, you are naive.

1. I assume the sex offender you're referring to is Mel Reynolds. According to this Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Reynolds, Reynolds served all of his 5 year sentence for the sexual offenses and 42 months of a 78 month sentence for bank fraud and lying to SEC investigators. Clinton commuted 36 months of the 78 month bank fraud/lying sentence. It's ironic that Libby's sentence for lying to federal investigators, essentially the same crime that Reynolds committed, was only 30 months. However, Bush though that was too harsh.:toung:

2. Who were the murderers that Clinton released?

3. Regarding the bombing of Iraq, House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.), Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.), House Majority Leader Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.), and Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) all supported the bombing in the face of Republican accusations that it was politically motivated. 'Told of these criticisms, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.), ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, branded them "preposterous," and noted that Osama bin Laden, suspected of bankrolling the installations that were bombed, "is one bad mother."' - Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/react082198.htm
Finally, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, coordinated the attack. Cohen is a Republican.

4. Regarding Clinton's passing up a chance to get Bin Laden, Clinton addressed that issue in his 24 Sep 2006 interview with Fox's Chris Wallace: 'The people on my political right who say I didn’t do enough, spent the whole time I was president saying ‘Why is he so obsessed with Bin Laden?’ And that was ‘Wag the Dog’ when he tried to kill him. My Republican Secretary of Defense, - and I think I’m the only person since WWII to have a Secretary of Defense from the opposition party - Richard Clarke, and all the intelligence people said that I ordered a vigorous attempt to get Osama Bin Laden and came closer apparently than anybody has since.' Richard Clarke confirms Clinton's statement in his book.

 

[VirginiaBob]

No one died when Clinton lied.

If you think releasing sex offenders and murderers out in the streets did not cause any harm or death, you are naive. If you think passing up the chance to get Osama handed to you on a silver platter did not cause any deaths, you are naive. If you think bombing a country to keep the attention off your infidelity caused no deaths, you are naive.

 

[rokid]

The thing I find interesting is that the name of an undercover CIA agent was revealed in violation of the law, the agent's career was destroyed, the agent's contacts were compromised, and, to date, no one has been held accountable. Not Richard Armitage, not Karl Rove, and not Dick Cheney.

"Scooter" Libby was convicted on four counts of lying to the Grand Jury and to federal agents and he'll probably get a pardon as the "Commuter" leaves office. Paris Hilton got more jail time for driving without a license. :laugh:

Oh well, only 565 days, 12 hours, and 37 minutes until the "Decider" leaves office.
http://www.backwardsbush.com/

 

[Show-me]

Personally, I felt that the prosecuter was more guilty of entrapment than Libby was guilty of lying. How anybody expected this guy to remember obscure details of conversations he had a year ago is beyond me. As for the issue of pardoning, didn't Clinton pardon 140 felons, some of them sex offenders? Heck, Clinton himself perjured himself more apparently than Libby.

Yep, you are correct. My point is that we the people, lowly peon citizens that we are, would not get that privilege. They would not give us a look.

 

[ayla]

Personally, I felt that the prosecuter was more guilty of entrapment than Libby was guilty of lying. How anybody expected this guy to remember obscure details of conversations he had a year ago is beyond me. As for the issue of pardoning, didn't Clinton pardon 140 felons, some of them sex offenders? Heck, Clinton himself perjured himself more apparently than Libby.

No one died when Clinton lied.

 

[VirginiaBob]

Personally, I felt that the prosecuter was more guilty of entrapment than Libby was guilty of lying. How anybody expected this guy to remember obscure details of conversations he had a year ago is beyond me. As for the issue of pardoning, didn't Clinton pardon 140 felons, some of them sex offenders? Heck, Clinton himself perjured himself more apparently than Libby.

 

[Show-me]

There's a lot of speculation that Bush will pardon Libby before he leaves office.

Yep, keep him out of prison with a commuted sentence until after the election and bam pardon him on the way out of the White House. Makes ya feel warm and fuzzy inside how fair the "system" is for "everyone".:notrust:

 

[rokid]

My bad. Michael Savage had said that he was "pardoned" but I didn't see that anywhere else. I didn't know exactly how to state the poll.

There's a lot of speculation that Bush will pardon Libby before he leaves office.