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Free at Last, Free at Last......
- Thread starter The HalfBreed
- Start date
Frixxxx
Moderator
Just lauding you on your ability to point out the differences in the conversation. Nothing but admiration and respect my friend.....
The HalfBreed
Member
If the system produces as much as, or more than, the home needs for it's requirements, it's Self Sufficient, in that regard....strictly looking at it from an energy standpoint....
The system that Produces the power is not 100% efficient.
Your choice of words in being A "Whole" engineer leaves some interpretation to the imagination, n'est pas ? :notrust:
PessOptimist
Well-known member
I should have said that some PV systems on some houses can produce more electricity than they are consuming at a certain point in time. That certainly does not make them more than 100% efficient or self sufficient.
You are absolutely correct, nothing produces more energy than it consumes. The good thing about PV, energy wise, is that the sunlight is free (so far) so efficiency of the panel is not really a factor.
My choice of words about efficiency was only considering Kw in vs kW out at a given point in time. Shoulda been more careful knowing theres engineers out there. I work with them every day:cheesy:
And, don't be sorry about standing. I stand by my (edited and qualified) statement.
PO
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Frixxxx
Moderator
Halfbreed, you're a "whole" engineer.
Is it 100% efficient or self-sufficient?
Or is my question gasoline on the fire?????
Viva_La_Migra
Well-known member
Well, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything!
The HalfBreed
Member
I beg to differ......A House CANNOT produce energy. Period.
Energy Producing products CAN produce energy, but; at LESS than 100% efficiency.
I stand by my statements........sorry.
Otherwise, that, in and of itself, would be the Perpetual Motion/Energy machine. One hasn't been created yet. By Man.:nuts:
Viva_La_Migra
Well-known member
Speaking of compressed air, I wonder how long it will take until someone gets the idea to capture bovine farts and use it in their vehicles. If it's polluting the environment anyway we may as well get some use out of it!:nuts:Yep I've got a 60 gal 5 HP Air Compressor in my garage. Just a little careful when someone tells me that a car can run on compressed air and generate enough air while driving to continue driving forever. All you have to do is give it one spin and it will go forever!!:laugh: I want one, you pay the Air TAX!!
PessOptimist
Well-known member
Let the expirements continue but stop saying they are the one true answer.
You get no free energy, you gotta pay someone. You just move your carbon footprint somewhere else.
Some houses can be above 100% efficiency for a few hours at certain times of the day. I am in the investigative stage of installing rooftop PV to reduce my electricity consumption. Fortunately for me a coworker has installed a PV system at cost of about 50k. I am waiting and watching his results. He still pays an electric bill. He yells at his family about conserving. He has never had a less than zero bill. He figures that with out of pocket expenses after tax rebates (which ain't exactly money in your pocket) he will amorticize this in about 15 years. So, true, sometimes some houses for a while can produce electricity. Show me one that has a net profit over a year. One that has people living in it that use lights, computers, washer, dryers, dishwashers etc. One that the people living in it paid for.
If you go 75 you are obviously not on 405 around LA:blink:
You get no free energy, you gotta pay someone. You just move your carbon footprint somewhere else.
Some houses can be above 100% efficiency for a few hours at certain times of the day. I am in the investigative stage of installing rooftop PV to reduce my electricity consumption. Fortunately for me a coworker has installed a PV system at cost of about 50k. I am waiting and watching his results. He still pays an electric bill. He yells at his family about conserving. He has never had a less than zero bill. He figures that with out of pocket expenses after tax rebates (which ain't exactly money in your pocket) he will amorticize this in about 15 years. So, true, sometimes some houses for a while can produce electricity. Show me one that has a net profit over a year. One that has people living in it that use lights, computers, washer, dryers, dishwashers etc. One that the people living in it paid for.
If you go 75 you are obviously not on 405 around LA:blink:
The HalfBreed
Member
Efficiency is based upon input vs output. Now, Nothing can produce 100% output....based on the % of input. SOME form of energy is lost, hence "LESS than 100% efficient". Now, a Photovoltaic cell can produce energy efficiency along the order of 20% up to (I read about) 60%, 30% being the norm at best. The homes you refer to just produce more energy than they consume. For instance, if 25% is the norm for energy conversion, and a home accepts 100 Kilowatts input (photocells), and 25% is converted into Usable energy, the home has 25 Kilowatts at it's disposal, and the photocells have "USED" 75 Kilowatts (75%) due to the conversion process. If that home only required 20 Kilowatts of energy for it's needs, it stands to reason the other 5 KW is "Extra" and can be sent to the energy co. However, looking at the math, that home's Solar cells are only 25% efficient.
Also.....Handballer, I didn't say you would shove your family into an econobox that does 35mph. LOL ! I said it would make good sense for everyday commuting, and such. Although, you could take your family to the movies...I go to movie theaters that are 3-10miles from here, and the max speed limit is 30-35 mph. Under those circumstances, that would be the ideal car....for some. Maybe not you, but, we're talking about "Everyone"....not specifically what YOU would do. :cheesy:
And Viva La Migra........I'm sure most folks that work and live in the city do 65-75 mph on any side street there.
Naturally, one could have MORE than one vehicle.....and BTW, I've seen CA traffic. 10-25 mph may BE considered the norm. LOL !!!
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wwwtractor
Member
I happen to be an engineer and a nurse. In science there are laws which can not be broken. If you want to know about real laws ask a doctor, scientist or engineer. Laws of life, nature, gravity, mechanics, thermodynamics, etc. can never be broken without consequences. Try breaking one of those and see what happens.
In law, politics, government, etc. there are rules which are made to be broken. If you want to know about those ask a lawyer about rules that can be broken with no consequences depending upon the person and their station in life.
Everything is "free" as long as you can use another person's resources to pay for it.
http://delicious.com/wwwtractor/laws
In law, politics, government, etc. there are rules which are made to be broken. If you want to know about those ask a lawyer about rules that can be broken with no consequences depending upon the person and their station in life.
Everything is "free" as long as you can use another person's resources to pay for it.
http://delicious.com/wwwtractor/laws
Handballer
Active member
Got an Air compressor in the garage ?
Heck, even if you ran a small on board chainsaw engine (110cc) to compress air, what amount of fuel would it use, comparatively speaking (to a 4 or 6 cyl gas engine)?
But, IF this can be accomplished for local commuting (100 or 200 mile capability) and the price is near 10K or so, I suspect it would be a best seller. Imagine......filling up your car the same as you would put Air into the tire !
And we ALL know that, there's no such thing as a "Perpetual Motion Machine" that I'm aware of, correct ? Nothing is 100% efficient....
I wouldn't risk my family's safety in one of these 10K vehicles. I guess it would run on high test air. Maybe GMC will capture the market for this new type of vehicle and have them maid in China.
nnuut
Moderator | TSP Legend
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080612104708AAjRLAz
Why cant car's used windmill technology and electricity and solar power?
That's what I was talking about!!! NAH!
Frixxxx
Moderator
Which reminds me....get over VLM...you're blockin me!!!!!:laugh:
nnuut
Moderator | TSP Legend
Yep I've got a 60 gal 5 HP Air Compressor in my garage. Just a little careful when someone tells me that a car can run on compressed air and generate enough air while driving to continue driving forever. All you have to do is give it one spin and it will go forever!!:laugh: I want one, you pay the Air TAX!!
Viva_La_Migra
Well-known member
The other question is, can it go freeway speeds? It's not enough to be able to go 200 miles if it can't go faster than thirty miles per hour. If you're not going seventy-five in California, you'll get run over!
Steadygain
TSP Elite
And we ALL know that, there's no such thing as a "Perpetual Motion Machine" that I'm aware of, correct ? Nothing is 100% efficient....
Humm that's a tricky question. There may not be one currently available but that certainly does not mean they can't exist.
Let's take (THE AIR) mode of energy - you're hoping will 'free us'.
There is no doubt that vehicles could be re-designed to utilize 'WIND ENERGY'. Say like the WIND TURBINES currently in use and spreading throughout the land.
If smaller TURBINES were designed to take advantage of the WIND created by a moving vehicle it would generate the energy to keep it moving forward - which would generate more energy - and thus a Perpetual Motion Machine would not be a difficult goal to accomplish. But that could be done in numerous ways.
Nothing is 100% efficient. Many houses today are more than 100% Effecient - and can actually sell the excess energy to the Power Companies. Not only that but houses can actually be designed to be in 'perfect harmony' with the Planet - an art mainly utilized in China.
The HalfBreed
Member
Got an Air compressor in the garage ?
Heck, even if you ran a small on board chainsaw engine (110cc) to compress air, what amount of fuel would it use, comparatively speaking (to a 4 or 6 cyl gas engine)?
But, IF this can be accomplished for local commuting (100 or 200 mile capability) and the price is near 10K or so, I suspect it would be a best seller. Imagine......filling up your car the same as you would put Air into the tire !
And we ALL know that, there's no such thing as a "Perpetual Motion Machine" that I'm aware of, correct ? Nothing is 100% efficient....
Buster
Well-known member
Umm..That would be in most cases "Electrical Energy"..vertually pennies in cost to charge up a car with compressed air....And if you actually watched the top Video..the car they are designing will charge the air cylinders while it's driving around.